toasters sound a bit dark..

[joshcamp]

hey all, i recently became a ric 330 owner for first time and not having played one through amps before (only played them unplugged in stores or from friends) I didn't know what to really expect other than from what I'd heard through recordings. Based on that, I was expecting lots of chime and jangle. This particular 330 is a 2004 with said toasters.
So, after using the guitar for the first time during band rehearsal last night, I notice the sound to be rather dark and as if a blanket is covering the amps speaker.
Mind you, I use this same amp with my other guitars (mostly teles and strats) and it sounds fine - it's a deluxe reverb.

so, I'm wondering if the pickups are known to be dark or there's something wrong with mine... or maybe i need to upgrade them to lollars or similar.. or maybe they have higher impedance than the vintage era toasters ??

any thoughts on this ??

[ken_j]

Depending on the year they could be 12K toasters as opposed to the current scatterwounds. A number of us have also put toaster pickup covers on high gains. You really need to know what you have.

[Danotron]

I find Toasters to usually be pretty bright. Check the "5th" knob, the smaller one on the bottom. It blends the bridge and neck pickups. You could have a little too much neck pickup in your mix.

Dan

[JakeK]

Yeah, I was going to suggest that, Dano. And Ken, he says it's an '04 model.

With 5th knob, on both of my Rics, I have it set to where there's not too much neck pickup that it overtakes the sound, but just enough so that it can be heard. The best way to explain it would be to show you and to provide a sound clip.

[joshcamp]

i havent taken out the pickups but i will tonite - to see if they aren't just covers on hi-gains.

also, i read somewhere that if they are indeed the 12k+ versions, one can remove some of the windings to reduce the resistance to 7.4 k or thereabouts.

has anyone done this ?

btw, i've played around with the 5th knob quite a bit. even on the bridge pickup, the tone is not jangly at all (to my ears) and not very bright.

[admin]

Before you take it apart, can you tell us more about the history of this instrument? Further, you can take some meaningful resistance measurements without removing the pickups.
Peter

[joshcamp]

yes, i will check the pickups for
a) whether they are actually hi-gains with toaster covers or,

b) what their resistance is.

This is my agenda for tonite

I will report back when I know more

[ken_j]

... And Ken, he says it's an '04 model.

I missed that. Even so since the 330 was purchased recently (used) the pickups may not have been factory installed. If not they could be any year or converts. Joe you should be able to see the magnets without removing the pickups if they have grommets and not foam.

[joshcamp]

i measured the pups. they measure at 7.4k ohms . i placed one lead on one end of the pickup selector switch and the other on ground.

so, i assume then these are actually toasters . no ?

how could i know if these are ceramic or alnico ?

[iiipopes]

Also, I read somewhere that if they are indeed the 12k+ versions, one can remove some of the windings to reduce the resistance to 7.4 k or thereabouts.

has anyone done this ?

NO NO NO!!! A THOUSAND TIMES, NO! Do this if you must (I have) to overwound highgains, but not to the 12K toasters. If you don't like them, put them up for sale. There is enough demand that a reasonable asking price will go in just a couple of days.

[iiipopes]

i measured the pups. they measure at 7.4k ohms . i placed one lead on one end of the pickup selector switch and the other on ground.

so, i assume then these are actually toasters . no ?

how could i know if these are ceramic or alnico ?

Yes, they are toasters. There is no alnico/ceramic difference. All RIC toasters have alnico slugs.

This will require some unsoldering, but have you checked the pots to see that they actually measure out full nominal value? If they don't, then there will be more loading to ground, taking the high end with it. Also, check the setup to see that they are the proper distance from a new, fresh set of strings. Another way to measure is through the jack with all the controls full up. With circuit loading, you should get in the neighborhood of a 7.2kohm reading on each pickup with the volume, tone and 5th knob all the way open, and about 3.6kohms with the selector switch in the middle, unless the guitar has been retrofitted with the .0047 inline bridge tone cap; if it has, the bridge pickup will read open at the jack, but correctly at the pickup selector when switched out so the pickup is isolated, like you have described.

[ken_j]

how could i know if these are ceramic or alnico ?

Toasters have six individual magnets for each pole piece. High gains have one bar magnet with individual poles and would not be visable with toaster covers.

[joshcamp]

so i lowered the pickups a bit and the sound has improved a bit. and yes, these are fresh strings. no, not flats... i have to try those next !!

what is the distnace between the pickups and strings that I should set ?

[doctorwho]

... what is the distance between the pickups and strings that I should set ?

(I assume that your action is already set the way you want it.)

I set the pickup-up height on the 6th string side first, to a distance such that during the string's greatest travel when played, the string doesn't hit the pick-up. I then raise/lower the 1st string side of the pickup to get a balance between the low and high strings.

BTW, you did try turning the the Tone knobs both directions, right? I've run across at least one guitar that had the tone knobs work in the opposite direction ...

Oh, one more thing, check that the control circuit matches the schematic on the RIC website ... a previous owner may have removed or added a capacitor in the circuit and that could be changing the sound.

[joshcamp]

yes, action is set perfectly for me.

i believe, without having played the guitar yet with my band, the pickup height adjustment may have solved the problem. I believe it was set too high. i lowered it a bit and now the tone is remarkably better ! I couldn't put the guitar down after the adjustment !

Now, I want to put a Accent Vibrato unit on it . any thoughts for or against this ?