Best output for modified Hi Gains?

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Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (MoldyJuice) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:42 pm

Hello all. I have recently found myself getting fed up with the Hi Gains on my Ric 430/6. They sounded muddy and lifeless so I decided to swap their ceramic magnets out for some alinco V bar magnets I stole from 2 old PAF. The result was fantastic, the pickups became way more dynamic and full sounding even somewhat toaster like! The only problem is that their just too high output (15k aprox) which makes them still just a little too muddy for my taste. So this is my question I'm planning on unwinding them soon but I'm not sure what resistance I should aim for. I heard about the 11K toasters and I like the idea of a little extra punch over the normal 8k. What would you guys recommend? Secondly what is the best way to go about unwinding the hi gains? Finally my Hi Gains have these awful black covers on them. Is it possible to just buy regular hi gain covers?

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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (soundmasterg) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:38 am

I've found that somewhere around 8k - 8.5k for the neck and 9.5k - 10k for the bridge is a good approach, however that is with the original magnets. If you are using some alnico bars, then the pickups won't be as bright as they would be with ceramic magnets. You can get the chrome covers from Rickenbacker instead of the black covers, but the bobbins will still be black. As far as unwinding them, well you can do it by hand but it will take FOREVER to do it, and you have to break the wire, sand, and measure it with a meter to see if you have unwound enough. You will find yourself doing this many times until you get down where you want to be, but it can be done. The hi gain pickups aren't scatterwound like they were when they were first made to my knowledge, and unwinding them won't get you that effect, but they can still sound good when unwound. I don't like the super hot Ric pickups these days either myself.

What happened to those old PAF pickups you stole the magnets out of? They don't make magnets the same way anymore so don't get rid of those magnets!

Greg
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (MoldyJuice) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:03 pm

Thanks Greg. I think I'll take your advice for the 8.5k neck and 10k bridge. I didn't notice the alnico bars making the pickups anyless bright, but more towards making them sound fuller. The paf I stole the magnets from are just some Gibson 61 zebra coils that came stock with my 2014 Les paul. As for winding do you think building a motorized jig would make it easier?
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (aceonbass) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:01 pm

When RIC was making 430's, black hardware wasn't an option. Can you post a pic of the guitar? If these pickups were black, then they likely had the molded plastic covers that covered the entire pickup, including the poles. If this is the case, you may not be able to remove them. Also, though RIC was using 500K pots for tone and 250K pots for volume back in the 70's, you should measure the pots in your guitar to see what they currently are. If they're way off on the low side, then that would explain some of the muddiness in your tone.
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (MoldyJuice) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:21 pm

I have been able to remove the black plastic covers and just expose the bobbin which appears to be made of pcb board. I was thinking of replacing the pots anyway with push pull ones so I can turn on off the .0047uF caps I currently have hard wired. If I do this should I go for 250k or 500k?
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (aceonbass) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:01 pm

If you use the push-pull as a tone, it should be 500K. If in place of a volume, it should be 250K. Be sure to use a solid shaft pot. The ones RIC sells won't work for this purpose.
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (soundmasterg) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:10 am

MoldyJuice wrote:Thanks Greg. I think I'll take your advice for the 8.5k neck and 10k bridge. I didn't notice the alnico bars making the pickups anyless bright, but more towards making them sound fuller. The paf I stole the magnets from are just some Gibson 61 zebra coils that came stock with my 2014 Les paul. As for winding do you think building a motorized jig would make it easier?
Thanks


Were those pickups real PAF's from 1961? Or were they current replicas of the PAF that Gibson makes nowadays? The reason I ask is that real PAF pickups are worth lots of $$$ but not when they are missing the original magnets. If they were real PAF's then I would say to put the magnets back in the pickups and sell them on ebay and you could buy a million magnets that would do the same as what you are trying to do with those Ric pickups. If they were just modern PAF copies then who cares. :)

Another thing to consider is that the magnetic charge on an almico magnet charges across the magnet the opposite way of ceramic magnets. So if you have the magnets laying flat, the alnico bar magnet will get its main charge on the sides rather than the wide face, whereas the ceramic magnet will get its strongest charge across its wide face rather than the smaller sides. That could influence how it works in the pickup and make it weaker than you might intend.

Greg
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (MoldyJuice) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:31 pm

Don't worry I didn't destroy vintage 61 pafs. They where reissue ones from a 2014 LPJ.
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Re: Best output for modified Hi Gains?

Postby (soundmasterg) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:08 am

MoldyJuice wrote:Don't worry I didn't destroy vintage 61 pafs. They where reissue ones from a 2014 LPJ.


Ok, good. Like I said then who cares about the magnets. Do what you want with them. :)

You should record some sound clips once you get them the way you want them so others can hear the difference.

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