Please explain the Ramones to me.

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Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:18 pm

Can someone please explain the Ramones to me?

It seems like if a person is into mainstream (read: sappy commercial drivel) music, then they think the Ramones are very punk.

If a person is very serious into heavy punk, they say they're mainstream.

So what is it? I honestly can't decide, not that there is a right or wrong answer anyway.

Thanks, J
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:31 pm

I think Motorhead said it best:

New York City, N.Y.C.,
Pretty mean when it wants to be,
Black leather,knee-hole pants,
Can't play no high school dance,
Fuzz tone,hear 'em go,
Hear 'em on the radio,

Misfits, twilight zone,
R-A-M-O-N-E-S [2],RAMONES,
Bad boy rock,bad boy roll,
Gabba gabba,see them go,
C,Jay now hit the gas,
Hear Marky kick some ***,
Go Johnny,go, go, go Tommy o-way-o,
[Repeat]

Bad boys then, bad boys now,
Good buddies,mau [3],keep it up,
Rock'n'roll,good music save your soul,
Dee Dee, he left home,
Joey call me the phone.
[Repeat]

I've never been a fan but I always appreciated their longevity. Without them, British punk would not have happened but I don't consider the Ramones to be the first punk band.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sloop_john_b) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:33 pm

phlemmy wrote:I don't consider the Ramones to be the first punk band.


Who would you give that distinction to?
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:37 pm

Alice Cooper (first 2 albums) and the New York Dolls come to mind first. Both predated the Ramones. I guess it depends on one's interpretation of what "punk" is.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sloop_john_b) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:46 pm

phlemmy wrote:Alice Cooper (first 2 albums) and the New York Dolls come to mind first. Both predated the Ramones. I guess it depends on one's interpretation of what "punk" is.


I feel like The Ramones paved the way for what punk is in the traditional sense, but the Dolls most definitely paved the way for The Ramones. Would Alice's first two albums be pre-Bob Ezrin?
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (shamustwin) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:54 pm

The Dolls came on the heels of the Glam movement, and were considered by some to be a part of it at least initially. My fellow Glam-ers sure did. Cooper traded a bit on the glam movement.

Early punk was defined partially by the brevity of the songs.

What passes as '60's Garage (think "Nuggets") was originally termed punk.

If I had to nail it, i'd give the first punk honors to the Ramones, for the music as well as style. Up to then bands were still wearing rock star type clothes, IIRC. They spawned the Sex Pistols, who in turn spawned the movement as a whole. Again, IIRC.

I fookin' love the Ramones. I think they brought rock and roll back when it needed bringing back.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:57 pm

nyrkickazz1 wrote:
phlemmy wrote:Alice Cooper (first 2 albums) and the New York Dolls come to mind first. Both predated the Ramones. I guess it depends on one's interpretation of what "punk" is.


I feel like The Ramones paved the way for what punk is in the traditional sense, but the Dolls most definitely paved the way for The Ramones. Would Alice's first two albums be pre-Bob Ezrin?


Yeah, Ezrin came in in 1971.
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A long and boring comment

Postby (sowhat) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:07 pm

Ramones were — in my view — quite a versatile band. At the very beginning, they were a shock. Short, loud songs straight-in-your-face — mixed with bits of bubblegum like "Ramona". In early 80's they worked with Spector ("End of the century"), and some say they started turning bubblegummy; the effects of that work can be seen in some of their tracks released later on ("Something to believe in", "My my kind of a girl", etc.). Later in 80s they also embraced "hardcore", and in my view, "Animal boy" is the funniest example of mixture of "hardcore" a-la Dead Kennedys ("Eat that rat", "Animal boy") and bubblegummy ballads ("Something to believe in", "She belongs to me").
From a point of view of a "hardcore punker" (which i am not, methinks), they may sound like mainstream cause they didn't restrict themselves to heavy, in-your-face stuff only & tried different genres including what sounded much like mainstreamish pop-rock (their 3rd album includes a cover of a beat standard "Needles & pins" which doesn't even sound much different from the original). Moreover, they recorded for Sire, which may also be considered a "crime" in a "true punk" world. From a point of view of a mainstreamer, they're too loud, too much in-your-face, too open in their emotions, and therefore somehow scary.
There's a hypothesis that informal groups, trying to break the limits built by society, end up with building their own limits and fences which may sometimes be even higher and harder to get over than those built by society. That said, in my view, Ramones did break some of the limits but they didn't start building their own, didn't restrict themselves.
This post seems to be much longer than an average Ramones song. :) In short — i think they're a great band, and therefore why should i care whether some people consider them to be mainstream? Speaking of which — i know that in US, the situation is quite different, but in Russia, i've never heard the Ramones on the rock radio station i used to listen to very often back in the day. The Pistols, on the other hand, were there (once). Does that mean anything? I dunno. :)
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (peewee) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:16 pm

nyrkickazz1 wrote:
phlemmy wrote:I don't consider the Ramones to be the first punk band.


Who would you give that distinction to?



My vote goes to that little "surf band from the Midwest"; The Trashmen! To me, "Surfin' Bird" is the prototype Punk tune in which all others followed...........coincidence that it was also covered by the Ramones?? Just my $.02. :wink:
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (captsandwich) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:41 pm

The Ramones were 4 guys making lots of noise, no matter what the critics thought. They had a kind of simplistic charm, even though they were drug-fueled guttersnipes. My brother saw them open for Aerosmith in 1976 or 77 and they got booed off the stage. I saw them in 1987 and the room was filled with punks, fat boys, metal heads... They started off making a joyful racket that nobody wanted to hear, and just kept on keeping on until they were making a joyful racket that everybody wanted to hear. The mainstream found them, they never went looking.
And that is why they are punk rock, IMO.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sloop_john_b) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:43 pm

captsandwich wrote:The Ramones were 4 guys making lots of noise, no matter what the critics thought. They had a kind of simplistic charm, even though they were drug-fueled guttersnipes. My brother saw them open for Aerosmith in 1976 or 77 and they got booed off the stage. I saw them in 1987 and the room was filled with punks, fat boys, metal heads... They started off making a joyful racket that nobody wanted to hear, and just kept on keeping on until they were making a joyful racket that everybody wanted to hear. The mainstream found them, they never went looking.
And that is why they are punk rock, IMO.


Well said, Cap'n!
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:45 pm

1..2..3..4..
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (tamborineman) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 pm

plus one on the Trashmen,I love that song. I witnessed Iggy and the Stooges in 1968. they were definately the proto type for a lot of punks to come.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:04 pm

i loved their scene on the Simpsons.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (captsandwich) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:15 pm

phlemmy wrote:i loved their scene on the Simpsons.


"Have the Rolling Stones killed."
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