Please explain the Ramones to me.

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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sloop_john_b) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:18 pm

captsandwich wrote:
phlemmy wrote:i loved their scene on the Simpsons.


"Have the Rolling Stones killed."


"But sir...!"

"Do as I say!!"
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (janglerocker) » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:21 pm

nyrkickazz1 wrote:
phlemmy wrote:I don't consider the Ramones to be the first punk band.


Who would you give that distinction to?


I would have to vote for Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sowhat) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:37 am

There's a hypothesis that the first punk band was formed somewhere in stone age. :) Some also say that the first punk band was a band called... the Kinks. Well, in my view, they had a big influence on the genre.
As for first punk song, "Surfin' bird" is a great example, imho. I'd also (personally) vote for "I fought the law" by Sonny Curtis — it wasn't covered by the Ramones (at least to my knowledge) but it was covered, among others, by the Clash, Dead Kennedys, and even a well-known modern "pop/punk" trio from Berkeley, CA which often is a topic for discussion as to whether they're punk or not.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (janglerocker) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:05 am

I agree that "punk" bands probably do go back to the beginning of time. When we're talking about actually calling it punk I think you have to look at the movement that grew from the disenchantment of the early '70's. Be it economic, political, or just plain sick of the overblown and emotionless music being fausted upon us at the time. The punk movement reconnected the fans to the performers.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (lennon211) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:49 am

I think that there was a lot of hinting at punk from the '50's on up. You had people like Link Wray giving the establishment the middle finger with "Rumble". Then in the '60's it was bands like the Kinks, the Stones, the Shadows of Knight, the Standells, et al, going at it with Fuzztones and Tonebenders, occasionally packing a Ric, but all with something that was fast, loud, to the point, and just incendiary enough to p*ss off the right people. But I would agree with the majority that the Ramones were the first consistently punk band. They set the tone and went their way, letting people find them.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (firstbassman) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:35 am

Hey, they wrote a song about my birthplace (Rockaway Beach). How bad can they be?
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (phlemmy) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:46 am

This all leads to another question...was punk about the sound or the attitude?
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sowhat) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:57 am

phlemmy wrote:This all leads to another question...was punk about the sound or the attitude?

About both, imho. Perhaps attitude "dictated" the sound and maybe vice versa as well.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (shamustwin) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:16 pm

I just want to plug the band "Love"'s song, "Seven And Seven Is".
Fierce song, circa 1967.
For those who've never heard it, try to find it and give it a listen!
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (Scastles) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:21 pm

I second Jerry's recommendation. Driving song. Great band.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sowhat) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 pm

You mean this one, Jerry?

A great one. And was also covered by the Ramones. :D
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (lennon211) » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:56 pm

sowhat wrote:
phlemmy wrote:This all leads to another question...was punk about the sound or the attitude?

About both, imho. Perhaps attitude "dictated" the sound and maybe vice versa as well.


I think that there is a certain element of the attitude dictating the sound and vice versa, but I think that there are two other major factors: musicianship and equipment. Many of the musicians in these groups were certainly not the virtuosos whose tones and techniques they were attempting to emulate. I think that in the case of the '60's proto-punks, you had a large number of guitarists who were trying like crazy to be Brian Jones, Keith Richards, Jeff Beck, etc. and in doing so, they obviously came to their limitations and in doing so, they defined the suitably "controlled slop" of this era. Also, a lot of these guys were playing on Harmony, Danelectro, especially Vox, and who knows what other cheap imports from Japan. While these guitars sound great, they are limited in quality and tone. As such, I think that the proto-punks were more defined by the sound, then attitude (trying to have the distilled essence of the Stones, et al).

When it came to bands like the Ramones though, it was all about getting through the song, no solos (a reaction against the virtuosos?), and because of limited musicianship, as few chords as possible (3). It became about utility. So in a way, attitude about the state of music and the arena bands and such influenced sound, just as did musicianship.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (mfb) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:33 am

"Please explain the Ramones to me."

"The Ramones" did basically what the "The Saints" did, but got better promo. :D
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (rictified) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:40 pm

tamborineman wrote:plus one on the Trashmen,I love that song. I witnessed Iggy and the Stooges in 1968. they were definately the proto type for a lot of punks to come.


The Stooges, listen to Raw Power, you'll never listen to any of the other so called punk bands the same again, punk is a meaningless label by the way. No band since has ever come close to that kind energy put on record, puts all the modern bands to shame. Released and recorded in 1972. Alice Cooper was a rock pop band, I liked them but they were a show, so were the Ramones, The Stooges were for real, you can hear it in their music and you could see it when they played, saw them in 69.
Sean said it best for the Ramones: 1,2,3,4. They were great but got very tiresome after you heard the 4th song that sounded exactly like the first three did. They had their poppy moments also, got polished after a while. The Stooges were the only band I can think of who played exactly what they wanted to without caring what anyone said or though including their record companies who didn't know what to do with them. They are finally starting to get the recognition they deserved years ago, their playing and song writing were light years ahead of all the rest of that type of band. James Williamson influenced a whole generation of guitarists. Put on Search and Destroy, you'll know what punk music is and what it isn't.
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Re: Please explain the Ramones to me.

Postby (sowhat) » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:22 am

They [Ramones] were great but got very tiresome after you heard the 4th song that sounded exactly like the first three did. They had their poppy moments also, got polished after a while. The Stooges were the only band I can think of who played exactly what they wanted to without caring what anyone said or though including their record companies who didn't know what to do with them.

Interesting point, Bob, but personally, i cannot completely agree. First, i never get tired of them, but that's just my own attitude. :) Second, as far as "played exactly what they wanted to..." — personally, i cannot imagine Ramones playing what they didn't really want to, or do something they didn't want to (like, cut their hair, or change leather jackets and torn jeans to smart suits, etc).
I agree, though, that they didn't try to keep their punk image straight and tried many things outside that style. But personally — while i do have a huge respect for Stooges and others who didn't "betray punk" — i don't really see anything bad about it. Maybe just because they are the Ramones, and i love them more than any other band (with the only exception of Dire Straits, but that's another story), and i wouldn't love them less if they were officially deprived of punk band status and proclaimed popsters.
I mean... here's Joey doing "Wonderful world" by Louis Armstrong.

Is it punk? Methinks not. Does that mean it's bad, sappy or insincere? Methinks not either.
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