Opening the Doors

A journey beyond mainstream to rebel music

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (rictified) » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:01 pm

nyrkickazz1 wrote:Jim kills it for me.

I've expressed my opinion on The Doors before (maybe here?) and was told they were a band of their time and place - late 60's LA, "you had to be there", etc. For me, it just comes down to the fact that, IMO, Jim was one of the worst lyricists - if not the worst - in the short history of rock 'n roll. He was always touted to be some poet of the LA scene at the time, but I can't imagine someone sitting down to write "poetry" and writing such utter self-indulgent drivel.


I think their stuff is timeless and I was there, now for ex. the Jefferson Airplane were a band of their time and place as their topics were cemented in the revolution of the 60's (still great though), but the Doors? Nahh, if they were a band of only their time and place why are they still so well known?
Ever listen to The End ,about the Oedipus complex? I don't think those lyrics are drivel in any way shape or form, how about When the Music's Over, about the enviroment, Unknown Soldier, about war? Do you derive more meaning from Now I wanna Sniff Some Glue? :twisted:
Very famous people and bands often have detractors who really don't analyze their stuff very much and dismiss them out of hand without really understanding what they are about. Jim wrote about a myriad of topics but underlying 99% of them was freedom, his lyrics soared along with the music, he inspired that music with his lyrics which is why the band was so good when he was alive and not so good after he died. I remember the day he died, was not a good day for music. You cannot understand what the Doors were about with casual listening. Those days are long gone but the spirit still lives on in the music.
(rictified)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8035
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Millbury, Ma. USA

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (shamustwin) » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:16 pm

Break On Through just cranks.

Morrison's screaming voice stills rates with me as one of the best.

Yes, long solos so the acid would kick in are now dated, but not many bands can top the Doors first album with their own.
(shamustwin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5284
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am
Location: City of Angels

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (admin) » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:18 am

To my way of thinking, Jim Morrison and the Doors took rock music to a new level with their release of "Light My Fire" in 1967. While they produced some great work after that, I consider that their releases that followed paled by comparision.

"Light My Fire" has a raw emotional quality that immediately pulls us in. Poetic it may not be, but in combination with Morrision's presentation it is irresistable. I am intrigued by its rather unique chord structure that broke away from the conventional for the late 1960s. The A minor to F# minor chord change kicks the limbic system into gear as the song builds throughout getting "higher and higher" as Morrison takes flight.

The release of this song is a watershead in some respects and in support of this claim one has to marvel at the number of artists who would record this song over the next four decades in instrumental and vocal versions and in a number of different styles. I am aware of at least 50 artists who have recorded "Light My Fire" from 1968 to 2006. This may not have set any chart records, however, it is surely a measure the the song's appeal.

The reasons for this song's success are multifactorial and its appeal transcends the lyric. The mood set by this song is remarkable and had the Doors never recorded again, it would have left its mark all the same.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
User avatar
(admin)
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14910
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 5:00 am
Location: Fredericton, NB Canada

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (rictified) » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:26 pm

shamustwin wrote:Break On Through just cranks.

Morrison's screaming voice stills rates with me as one of the best.

Yes, long solos so the acid would kick in are now dated, but not many bands can top the Doors first album with their own.


I love his version of Back Door Man on The Doors, anyone who says he couldn't sing should listen to that.
(rictified)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8035
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Millbury, Ma. USA

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (paologregorio) » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:20 am

I really like a lot of the tasteful, hooky playing by all of the guys in the Doors. I even like the silly riff in "20th Century Fox".

It is ironic that Music magazines are now saying that the band was overrated when some of the same magazines have had recurring cover features on the band over the past couple of decades.

A lot of of Morrison's lyrics are really tedious and overblown, but I think that others, including "Touch Me" are great pop songs, with or without the horns. I also really like "Moonlight Drive". It does often seem like his lyrics are half finished. or that he didn't think them out in some of the pop songs, but I like those songs. I like "Soul Kitchen" as well. I don't even mind "Light my Fire" even though I've heard it countless times.

There is no denying that he had a great voice. If he'd had any sense about his life at all and not been a complete substance abuser, he would have been a better lyricist and live performer, and avoided all of the legal nonsense. The Stones were the Bad Boys of Rock in the 60s and Mick Jagger managed to write some great stuff and refrain from doing himself in. If Morrison had shown the slightest bit of restraint, he could have matured and been the Rock N' Roll Sinatra. As it was, he destroyed himself.

His live persona was completely obnoxious and over the top. In addition to the drug infused antics there was also all of the awful poetry recitations in the midst of songs at the live shows-ugh. If I'd had to be in a band with Morrison, I would have ended up clubbing him over the head with one of my guitars.

The Doors seem to enjoy recurring waves of popularity with each new generation of 19 year olds, at least in the decades since Morrison's demise. I think it's all in the mentality of the songs, which to my mind is the age group that the lyrics appeal to. I liked the Doors much more when I was 19-22. the Doors' popularity may not recur with the current generation and those to come due to today's permissive culture rendering all of the exremem antics of the Doors far less shocking than in times past, but the lyrics and imagry may remain enough to draw the attention of new generations of fans. Plenty of today's 12 year old's still like Zep and the Beatles, which surprises me, as well as the Beatles, and there legions more 19 and 20 year olds who like the sounds of the Smiths, Joy Division, and Echo and the Bunnymen now than even knew of their existence back in the day. So there's something in the music , the obnoxiousness of Morrison considered, that continues to entice new fans.
User avatar
(paologregorio)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6364
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA, United States of America

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (admin) » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:57 am

A great post, Paul. The Doors certainly did have their own sound. The instrumentation was equally important as the vocals and as in almost all music, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
User avatar
(admin)
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14910
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 5:00 am
Location: Fredericton, NB Canada

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (jingle_jangle) » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:22 am

winston wrote:I always considered the Doors overly self indulgent and a band that would be nothing without the musings of Jim Morrison. My opinion has not changed much and it would seem that I was right about them amounting to nothing without Morrison.


I'm firmly in the opposite camp. I think that the Doors were quite unique, musically, for their time, and that it was Morrison, the self-proclaimed "Lizard King" (give me a break...I'd rather be king of unicorns or possibly manatees...) whose self-absorption (not to mention self-delusion) seduced millions to buy their records. Because of JM, they are (another) tribute to hype's opportunistic role in producing cash cows, whereas without Morrison they were musically interesting, but would have never sold a record. Looking back on the mid-to-late '60s, when I was an urban college kid just interested in training for a profession and earning a living, Morrison slotted neatly into the whole self-indulgent "hippie" scene of suburban kids whose parents were footing the bill for their patchouli and afghan coats so they could have license to "explore" stuff that working students could spend neither time nor money on. I thought that hippies were looking for a convenient way to distinguish themselves from the mass of meat puppets while enjoying some second-rate, acid-laced erotic freedom. I belonged to a band called "Haymarket Square", who were staunch followers of hippie "philosophy"; the girl singer, in particular (who styled herself after Mama Michelle Phillips, and was every bit as delectable; no names here...) would spout volume after volume of rote hippie "wisdom" in an attempt to convince me (and probably herself, too) that there really was some sort of universal Truth in all that nonsense.

Consider if the Doors were from Des Moines instead of USC and Venice beach. Consider, too, that the late Danny Sugarman would have never had a career had he not tied his wagon to their memory, and how symbiotic and incestuous that relationship became over three decades. Sugarman wrote what I consider to be the worst rock bio that I've ever read ("No One Here Gets Out Alive"), and is one of a pair of ersatz nonfiction "authors" on my bookshelves who would not be writing without their weird attachment to, and obsession with, their human pseudo-heroic subject matter.

(My nominee for best rock bio? Of an individual, Charles Schaar Murray for "Crosstown Traffic", on Hendrix, of course. Best bio of a movement? Barney Hoskyn's "Waiting for the Sun", about the LA music scene from Central Avenue in the '40s through hip-hop. Both Brits, ironically, who did their homework.

The other ersatz author with an ersatz "I was there!" bio? Mark Christensen, for "Building the Perfect Beast", the dumbest car-freak book ever written, because anyone who knows cars can spot dozens of factual errors sprinkled throughout the text, while pondering Christensen's homo-erotic attachment to the book's subject, a fledgling car designer and constructor named Nick Pugh. Do I digress? Sorry...)

The musings of Morrison would be seen as he doggerel that they are,had the band not hit it big. His lyrics are third-rate; thank God for hummable hooks.

I have three strong connections with the Doors, psychically speaking: I will never, never forget the first time I heard "Touch Me, Babe", on AM radio, while cruising in my '55 Chevy Nomad wagon, girlfriend by my side, on a perfect Saturday afternoon in Wauconda, Illinois. Also etched into my memory was the first five minutes of "Apocalypse Now", which I saw at the premiere in West Los Angeles in 70mm and Dolby surround: The wheezing organ of Manzarek as the band launches into "The End" and helicopters move across the theater and napalm blossoms in slow motion...Last, the three days I spent in an industrial loft in downtown LA in March 1990, filming parts of the Oliver Stone "Doors" film, where I was immersed in their music, smoked too many packs of stale cigarettes because the script told me to, and the five minutes or so of my "acting" work that didn't hit the cutting-room floor.

Finally, without the Doors and Manzarek, no one would ever have heard, played, or collected the Gibson G101 organ, one of the best-made and best-looking and -sounding of all analogue keyboards, VOX Continental notwithstanding...
User avatar
(jingle_jangle)
RRF Moderator
 
Posts: 22658
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
Location: Attritus nunquam subsisto hic...

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (rictified) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:27 am

I think the Doors music and Jim's lyrics just fitted together like a glove, I don't know about anyone else here, but I never tried to analyze their lyrics, didn't really care and I may have been naive but I didn't know he was a bad alcoholic until after he died so that aspect certainly didn't attract me to them. I was certain he did drugs but to what extent I didn't know, I thought everyone did drugs back then so that was nothing unusual about that to me either, all I knew was that they as a whole were a great band and were very unique in that they didn't sound like anyone else also like a lot of other late 60's bands which was a time of great artistic creativity. Ironic that "Waiting for the Sun" was the name of their third album and another great song by them. As with most bands the whole was greater than the sum of the parts of the band. A band is a band, a good band brings out the best in all the players who in other contexts could be mediocre although I think the level of musicianship was uniformly high in that band. I think as long as rock music is alive they will continue to be rediscovered by new generations as will bands like The Beatles. They are one of the few bands where if you play any of their albums every song is good and interesting.
What part did you play, Paul?
(rictified)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8035
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Millbury, Ma. USA

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (jingle_jangle) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:31 am

Everybody did not do drugs back then...I was going to college full-time, playing in my bands for fun and small change, working at a gas station in summers and unloading trucks at UPS during the winters. I did not drink, smoke, or do any substances, and a fair number of my friends in college were puzzlingly straight. Our heroes were still pretty revolutionary: John Lennon, Bill Kunstler, Willam Burroughs (!), Malcolm X... I belonged to the Weathermen group of SDS; I was an SDS member from 1966-70 until Freddie Hampton was shot in his sleep by renegade Chicago cops...I then got married, had kids and bought a suburban house. Got the heck out of the city.

I originally read (and looked) the part of Andy Warhol; wore a blonde hairpiece (as did Andy), took home a script for my scenes; arrived on the set only to find that the contract was being signed by one Crispin Glover, who was 110% stoned for all three days, and took several hours in makeup to get to look as I do by force of Nature. I still played a couple of scenes with him. I spoke quite a bit; he said two words, "Hi, Jim..." It was about all he could remember then. Cosmic irony, but Stone wanted all the Names he could get. I had also read for the part of the Tampa concert promoter; that was given to Billy Vera. So I ended up an uncredited hip guru-type monk with a small speaking part. My voice was excised, but my partner's was not. Psychedelic soundtrack; watch it and you'll understand. You will definitely recognize me; I look almost the same as I do now, except I'm wearing black round National Health eyeglasses (which have since come to be called, "Harry Potter" glasses) and, of course, black robes. It was lots of fun and an interesting three-day-long communal effort with no sleep for 72 hours for anybody except Val Kilmer.
User avatar
(jingle_jangle)
RRF Moderator
 
Posts: 22658
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
Location: Attritus nunquam subsisto hic...

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (mfb) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:45 am

"The Doors"?

They were better than Windows.
User avatar
(mfb)
Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:00 am
Location: mainly Australia

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (rictified) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:30 pm

Paul, I didn't mean it was a good thing that it seemed like everyone was doing drugs, I was 16 at the time and the media probably got the best of me, they made a mess out of me I know that. I did see the movie but it is hazy I'll go back ands see it again. I thought the movie lacked detail, must have been more to Morrison's life than that.
(rictified)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8035
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Millbury, Ma. USA

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (jingle_jangle) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:49 pm

I understand Bob, I was just clarifying from my own experience.

I was disappointed in the movie when it came out. It was a combination of three things: Morrison's own life in a time of chaos being the main thrust (I mean, gimme a break on that pseudo-mystical opening sequence!), the Head Honcho Advisor on All Things Doors (Sugarman) having his own agenda, and the muddle-headedness of the Director (Oliver Stone) himself. He spent a good deal of time on the set in a wheelchair (too Stoned to walk?), mumbling indecipherable directions to the three ADs that I counted.

Still, there were lots of memorable scenes in this hash of a biopic.
User avatar
(jingle_jangle)
RRF Moderator
 
Posts: 22658
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
Location: Attritus nunquam subsisto hic...

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (scotty) » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:30 pm

Cant help thinking that your hold`n back there Paul!
Head Honcho is still making me laugh. :lol:
User avatar
(scotty)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 7062
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:27 am

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (admin) » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:11 pm

Winston wrote
I always considered the Doors overly self indulgent and a band that would be nothing without the musings of Jim Morrison. My opinion has not changed much and it would seem that I was right about them amounting to nothing without Morrison.


Brian: You may well have a point with regard to the Doors. At the same time I am wondering if the Stones would have been able to be as successful without Mick Jagger, Herman's Hermits without Herman, Gerry and the Pacemakers without Gerry or even The Beatles, without Lennon.

My thesis would be that for many successful groups there were magic moments that were based on a precarious state of affairs that, if changed only marginally, the momentum was lost.

The Door surely got caught in a jam with the passing of Morrison. What I wonder beyond this argument is would the Doors have continued their success, had Morrison survived, given the self-indulgence that you have noted?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
User avatar
(admin)
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14910
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 5:00 am
Location: Fredericton, NB Canada

Re: Opening the Doors

Postby (sowhat) » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:33 pm

What I wonder beyond this argument is would the Doors have continued their success, had Morrison survived, given the self-indulgence that you have noted?

Well, i'm not Winston, but imho, had Morrison survived and had they continued, even if they continued their success — and i suggest with the success they had, they wouldn't have lost all of it, — that would be a different band. I mean, Morrison's passing — to some extent — is a part of their image, of their story, of their legendary status. Sounds cruel, i know.
But, of course, who knows what could have been?..
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
User avatar
(sowhat)
RRF Consultant
 
Posts: 5380
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:00 am
Location: Moscow origin, Russia

PreviousNext

Return to Light My Garage, Torch My Fire!: by Sheena Colvin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests