What is/what is not?

A journey beyond mainstream to rebel music

Re: What is/what is not?

Postby (sowhat) » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:40 am

Basement rock, bedroom rock, kitchen rock, bathroom rock, back porch rock, roof rock, rocking chair rock... who's more? How many music styles might have been there? :wink:
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
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Re: What is/what is not?

Postby (rictified) » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:26 pm

jingle_jangle wrote:
rictified wrote:There was no such term as garage music until well after the music had ended, but garage music was huge here in the States during the mid 60's but it didn't have a name except for rock n roll. Garage was long gone by 1968 or at least the real stuff. Check out The Barbarians, stuff like that, 1965-66 was probably it's hey day.


Funny. When I was in about 5 bands in three years back in '65-'67, we called ourselves garage bands at the time. My last band, Haymarket Square, were in luxury-ville because we were a basement band, and a heated, fully-clubbed-out basement at that.


Well maybe it wasn't picked up by the press until after that. I know I never remember hearing it often until the revival of it during the late 70's, bands like The Lyres etc.
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Re: What is/what is not?

Postby (danbind) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:16 am

I go along with the DIY camp on the "definition" of punk--wasn't it Lester Bangs that first used the term in this context, trying to describe Iggy Pop? It is definitely a rejection of the status quo, whatever that may happen to be at the time. For me it was Journey and Kansas and Skynyrd, growing up in rural Tennessee in the late 70's--I was not moved by that, and needed something different. It is certainly just as true that the heavy R&B records that Elvis Presley heard Dewey Phillips playing on the radio in the early 50's were punk, and that Louie Armstrong was punk too--he did what was in his own head, not in someone else's. Was Mozart punk? In the Amadeus movie, he was A punk.

I guess the difference between "punk" and "revolutionary genius" lies in technique and timing.

Or it could just be that it's fun. And I actually kinda dig Skynyrd.
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Re: What is/what is not?

Postby (whojamfan) » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:40 am

Punk Rock is simply an oxymoron, and has been passed around and abused more than the shipyard hooker on dollar day. The term was coined around 75/76 in response to what was going on at CBGBs, mainly what the Ramones were doing in terms of how the music was actually played. England redefined that with the Pistols, marketed the hell out of it, and literally destroyed it. The Ramones still playing, influence people in every town every place they play to say"if they can do it, so can I." Punk then splits into Hardcore in the US, and what came to be known as Oi! in the UK(which now had the added flavor of football(soccer)hooligans as a large fanbase). At the same time, Mod and Skinhead were having big revivals, so now add ska and powerpop. Reggae had influenced a lot of the 77 era UK punk bands, so add that to the mix.

By 1980, you had several existing subcultures mixed together with the spirit of anger and revolution behind it going every which way. Every few months, the press would declare it dead, and a modified version would come out to add to the ever growing types of punk. After that, it became 3 million different things that we can argue about untill the end of time.

You really can't call anything before this punk, as the term had not been "invented" yet. "The Who", for instance, have been described, by some, as the first punk band because they played loud, hard, angry,and broke their instruments. Those of you around at that time get outraged because they were a Mod band, a product of a defined movement that was going on at the time and is most often associated with(but by all means NOT limited to)London, England. Anything before 1974 can be described as influencing punk, but you cannot factually call anything before this "punk".

As far as "Garage" goes, I wasn't there, so I don't know when this term came in to play. Garage is generally associated with the lesser known 60s fuzz bands, one hit wonders, and those who didn't fit the "Love and Peace" category. Those Nuggett compilations exposed many a kid in the 80s to music they would never had heard otherwise, and their "Punk" volumes were a marketing tactic designed to tell the consumer that this stuff wasn't folky hippie music. Surf has that great energy and speed that had a big influence on what was to become known as punk.

Slade, were originally marketed as a Skinhead band to capitalize on this popular off shoot of Mod in the late 60s England, but Skinheads were not into rock and roll, and the band changed its image to become part of what became "Glam". (Just look at their first album if you think I'm full of it.)Keep in mind, Skinheads were in to ska and bluebeat type music, and were not any more political than any other movement. John Mayalls son, a Skinhead, introduced Eric Clapton to the music of Bob Marley, which prompted him to re record "I shot the Sherrif, and exposed Marleys music to an audience he would never have on his own. "Fairies where Boots" by Black Sabbath is about the problems they had with their local Skinheads in Birmingham, when they were still called "Earth", I believe.

The whole racist element ,that has forever scarred Skinhead as a scene, did not happen untill the revival of the late 70s, when Racist political groups sponsored some bands (I will not name here) to do their bidding for them. Of course the press went ballistic with it, and everything associated with Skinhead was now about being a "racist thug". Unfortunately, this pretty much killed Oi!(which were compilation albums of current uk punk bands that included many Skinhead bands, as the revival had split that scene into 3 different types, one of them being punk)and Margaret Thatcher actually deemed them a "threat to the country", and formed special police groups(SPGs)to infiltrate and break up this "revolution about to happen", much in the same way Nixon did in the late 60s and early 70s with the hippies. Geraldo took an extreme minority and made people believe that all Skinheads were racists on his talkshow. So much for that subculture, for a while, anyways.

In the states, punk was hated by all not involved in it. No airplay, hard to get shows, constant police abuse, and the convenient scapegoat of talkshows and television. The New Wave of British Heavy Metal had just rolled in, and the new craze came with the battle cry of "punk sucks! " I would put Mike Olga(of the band "Toy Dolls") guitar playing up against Def Lepoard or just about any of those guys any day. There were a lot of "great" punk players who never got their due thanks to the stereotype that it has to suck to be punk.

Now, punk and metal had crossover bands like GBH and Motorhead, but thrash and speed created a new genre of metal, which while not invented by, was most popularized by Mettalica. Heavy metal was now splitting into many different types, including hair pop metal, which eventually got metal kicked off the charts by this thing called "Grunge". Grunge was a much safer version of metal/punk, and was focused more on being self destructive, than being productive. Many metal guys were happy that they didn't have to cut their hair, and just needed to put on a flannel, d-tune the guitar, and turn up the reverb.

Bands like "Green Day" and "Blink 182" ushered in the new, safe for everyone, homoginized punk that was now on the radio. The anger had turned to anxiety, and the revolution turned to relationship problems, like not having a girlfriend. It was now fashionable to call anybody and everybody a "sell out" for any reason you could think of. Now you could buy your Doc Martens in pretty colors at the mall, and go to gigs with a hello kitty backpack. Punk, had been completely diluted from its original intent, and anything with a distorted guitar could be called punk now.

Through all of this, the "Ramones" had toured almost nonstop and had continued to put out records. They never did achieve the level of success they deserved, which is the biggest crime in punk rock. I will also have to mention the "Exploited", as they certainly toured their butts off over the years, and D.O.A, for the same reason.

Like I said initially, Punk is an oxymoron, and there is really no definition one can place on it anymore. In the true spirit of Punk, it "Punked" itself to death. Not to say that there still aren't good bands out there, but punk has surpassed rock in terms of trying to generalize or categorize a type of music, dress, and/or lifestyle.

I didn't include every little facet or offshoot, and am sure I left out valid examples and bands, but believe it or not, it is not my intention to write a book. I am merely trying to fill in some blank spots, dispell some myths, and educate those who want to understand how things got from point a to point b, as well as try to answer why people use punk more as an adjective when trying to describe pre 1974 music or attitudes.

I absolutely recognize countries other than the USA and UK for their contributions, but do not have the firsthand experience and knowledge to make any comments that are helpful. I don't know how things went down in other places, but cannot stress enough the importance of the worldwide contributions to this thing we call "Punk Rock".
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