Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I've gotten into this debate, and also listened to others debating this: when did punk REALLY begin? Some would have it that it began with the Stooges. Others, with the Ramones and the CBGB bands. Then there are others that contend that it has its roots much farther back, beginning with under-the-radar artists of the '50's like Link Wray. The Rolling Stones are also touted at times to have begun some of the movement with their mid-60's string of tunes that inspired much of the garage band era groups like the Standells, the Chocolate Watchband, and many others. So what's really the case here? Is it the first time that someone really hit a guitar with a "F**k you" (apologies if that offends) look in their eyes? Is it when social commentary came into the lyrics? Since part of the equation in any genre of music becomes the emotion that is created in the song in addition to the perceived rebellion, when did punk REALLY begin?

Stone age, i suppose.
Seriously, though, i think the topic in question was explored in songs, including traditional, long before 20th century (and long before 70s — check "I fought the law", for instance, which didn't really sound like a punk song before Clash and others covered it but had a similar feel). The form may have been different though. I can hear it in old Russian ditties and even nursery rhymes (i'm not kidding).
As far as the genre is concerned, technically, the genre is "born" when it gets the name. But frankly, i'd probably be the last person to care for names.

I generally credit the Stooges who took what the Stones were doing and made it trashy(er).

Would that be punk as a style, attitude, or form of music? Punk means so many things to so many people you could argue this point back to before the middle ages. The term "Punk Rock" was coined as a result of the music that was happening at CBGBs around 74. As far as what has become to be known as punk rock, you really have to give that to the Ramones. Nobody was playing their instruments like that, and they invented the blueprint for countless bands of the genre.

The Stooges, both pre and with James Williamson, were never called punk untill punk had been well established as a style of music, long after they broke up. While it's quite obvious these punk bands were heavily influenced by the Stooges, MC5, New York Dolls, Sonics, 60s fuzz and surf, and other bands, none of them were ever called punk, because the term wasn't around except as a derogitory term for prison chicken, or young hoodlums. I can't find a single reference that states the term "Punk Rock" was ever used before the Ramones and CBGBs.

Punk as an attitude? Well in Biblical times they used to stone unruly teenagers to death, so who knows.

In the UK 1976. (that was the short post winner of 08)

scotty wrote:In the UK 1976. (that was the short post winner of 08)

76 UK. Anybody shorter?

There are always earlier influences, but the Ramones put it together, made it happen, and spawned a movement.

I have to vote for the Ramones, too. I watched a documentary on them and they went on a UK tour and all of the Sex Pistols and Clash turned out and were blown away. They were fully formed when they started, which was a plus, too. (Meaning they had their blueprint right from the get go!)

I'm of the opinion that punk has its roots back in the '60s. In a lot of ways, "My Generation" can be seen as a punk song, and The Who were definitely influential when it comes to aspects of later UK punk, given their anti-establishment swagger.

On the other side of the Atlantic, I can't go past The MC5 (although the big hair is an issue). Their song "American Ruse" may have a lead break, but it is punk in its drive, brevity and in-your-face political stance. Apologies for the quality of the clip:


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In one accounting of the "Nuggets" anthologies I've read, it was stated that some of the music on those records was called Punk in the '60's, but that was dropped when the punk movement of the '70's adopted the name.

How the MC5 were never bigger just baffles me. They were so much better than so many of those hippy bands that"made it". Their first album was live and absolutely furious. They were the only band that showed up for the "big gig" at the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago, and were playing when Abbey Hoffman started to encite the riot with the cops that occured. They were actually loading up their van in the middle of it trying to get the hell out of there. Many bands were supposed to play, like the Jefferson Airplane, but no one else showed up. Revolution Rock at its best.

Right now.....right now.....right now it's time to.....KICK OUT THE JAMS, MUTHA^%$&*s!!!!!!

And the intro before Ramblin Rose still gets me choked up, one of the best band intros / jams ever.
"I give you, a testimonial! THE MC5!" ROAR right into Ramblin Rose. THEY ROCKED.

Right on man, let's hear it for brother Wayne Kramer!

rkbsound wrote:There are always earlier influences, but the Ramones put it together, made it happen, and spawned a movement.

Agreed! The Sex Pistols got international attention.

I think Punk the attitude began with people like Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, and Chuck Berry. Just going against the norm. 60s bands gave influence to 70s bands i think. Especially the Who. I view My generation as the 1st punk song. 3 chords, angst, and telling old folks to back off.(no offense to old folks here). Then bands like the Velvets, Stooges, NY Dolls, and the MC5 laid out a more basic template. Then the 1st wave CBGBs bands took their influence to the next level. Then the New York scene was stolen by Malcolm Mclaren(i hate that guy) and given to the pistols. And we all know what happened after that.....IMO