Reverberating Ideas

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:44 am

Tony: To my way of thinking, one of the greatest effects to emerge in the recording industry has been that of reverb. While this effect can make a recording, it is also my view that it can break it as well.

What type of reverbs are considered in modern studios these days and are they all digital effects when it comes to vocals.

I still find the Fender Twin Reverb to be first rate for guitars, providing a depth and presence that I have not heard equalled by effects pedals, for example.

I would be interested in your thoughts with regard to the addition of reverb to voice and instruments in recording.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:22 pm

As an interesting side note to this post Peter, I took a two year recording program series of classes several years ago, and one of the first lab projects that we did was to record someone reading some material in a stairwell with lots of room reverb. Then we recorded the same person reading the same material, using the same mic, the same height and distance away in an acoustically dead room. Then we took the digital reverb and delay units in the studio and tried to copy the reverb effect on the room reverb track from the stairwell. It was impossible to do, partially because the people would speak differently (louder) in the dead room since it sounded different in there.

So while I think the reverb and delay effects can help, the best sounds come from getting a good sound in the room before you even record. Its much easier to do in a large studio or purpose built studio than in a house or basement somewhere too.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:08 am

Virtualy all reverb is now digital & Lexicon is still pretty much King in this area. Their top flight reverbs are to be found in most top studios. Unfortunately, at around the £6-10,000 mark, not many can afford it, so this is an area where I have taken particular care over, as you are absolutely right, a recording can be made or broken with reverb.

Remember that reverb (apart from FX reverb) is supposed to simulate a real acoustic space & therefor, the overriding factor must be...does it convince you! Some budget reverbs can sound great & others not so & the only way you can really tell is by soloing the reverb & listen incredibly carefully for decay 'jitter', overall tone & more importantly...is it convincing. You should be aiming for something that makes you think you are listening to something just outside the rehearsal room....if that makes sense.

Greg has a good point, but in a modern studio reverb is almost always added after. (not always in the case of orchestral music & a lot of drum rooms are especially treated to give a particular reverb). The reason for this is three fold, first, untill you have the tracks laid, you don't know how much reverb to put on a particular track...some need none & some will need lots. Secondly, you don't know what EQ the reverb has to be...a poorly EQ'd reverb will add to mudiness, add to noise & a general lack of clarity. Thirdly, as generally, the purpose of reverb is to simulate an acoustic space, if you have different reverbs on different instruments (your amp reverb for instance), then there is no way that you can hope to achieve a realistic reverb, simulating a 'live' performance. I am not saying that you can't run more than one reverb, I always run an ambient (Lexicon) & a longer reverb (Digitech), but they must be matched as closely as possible, otherwise you run the risk of a recording that sounds like it has been recorded in two halfs!

I am talking about multi tracking here, but if you're recording one chap with an acoustic gtr & it sounds good in the bathroom, then do it!

Top studios have live rooms & drum rooms that have been very carefully treated to provide the industry standard RT60 reverb, that works well in their own studio. They often have acoustic treatment that can be put into place to reduce the reverb time, EQ etc, but even this very expensive treatment is not as controllable & certainly not as adaptable as a digital reverb & so as a result, the majority of released music gos down the digital reverb route. Some of these digital reverbs are really quite impressive!

BTW, you have my album Peter & the reverb on the whole album is a Lexicon ambient reverb, even on vocals.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:15 pm

Tony: What type of reverb was used on the guitar solo for The Beatles' I Saw Her Standing There?

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:41 pm

Actual reverb units are pretty much going the way of the dinosaur. Most everything is a software plug-in these days and the old hardware makers like Lexicon have made a nice transition. Their Pantheon plugin is a standard and the Sonitas modules are also outstanding. (I often use both together.)

Convolution-based reverberation and reverb sampling is the latest trend, where actual places or actual hardware devices have been sampled and made to accept parameters.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:00 pm

I hear what you say John, but I have yet to see any evidence of this in the studios, major or otherwise, that I visit. Hardware outboard still reigns supreme. I even saw a midiverb 2 the other day in the remastering suite at Abbey Road!! (Not that it's used for reverb...of that I'm certain). The big lexicons are still in the racks of most studios that I have been to (or the machine room normaly).

The mastering suites are full of state of the art anologue EQ's etc, even though the two track is now on digital & computer based. Plug in's are not used at all (at least during the many sessions that I have attended).

To answer your question Peter, I don't know. I'll have a listen. In the 60's, plate reverb was a great favourite...so that is more than possible, even before hearing it.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:45 pm

Of course they still have the outboard gear in the racks- after all they already bought it and it's not totally archaic yet. But most producers are bringing their own modules in along with their Pro Tools and that's what's getting used most often.

Saw Paul McCartney doing that at Henson Studios in L.A., for instance. L.A. studios are using every plug-in you can name but maybe the U.K. is different.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:58 pm

I remember reading something about a huge reverb tank/drum that Abbey Road studios had back in the day...it was big enough it took up a room I think. I would guess the Beatles probably used it if it were available back then. I wonder if it is still there....

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:36 pm

I think Capitol Records has the most famous example.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:21 pm

I'm going to put one of those in a shed in my back yard one of these days....

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:50 am

An outhouse might have a particularly nice slap back. You could choose between lid up and lid down too.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:05 am

Thanks for putting a plug-in for the John, John.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:46 am

You can imagine it can't you...a singer standing on the toilet because an engineer told him that that's how it's done. The lid up option would be tricky!

Reminds me of a particularly cruel jest played on a singer by a jaded engineer regarding plate reverb.....

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:37 pm

Abbey Road Studios Echo Chamber

http://www.thefabfaux.com/photo_large.php?id=18&category=Abbey%20Road%20Studios/Liverpool%20Beatle%20Week%20'99&cat_id=1

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:06 pm

So, I guess the electric fire there is to warm up the sound, eh?