My father had an old Honda Civic that did NOT last forever. He never really liked the car. It was giving major problems by the time it reached the age and mileage of my pickup truck. The Mercedes-Benz 300D I sold him is 26 years old and still running quite well. He's not looking for a Honda anytime soon, and he used to be a Ford dealer mechanic and once owned his own shop, so he can figure out which brand he can keep running easier and more economically. You can go to Autohaus in Dallas and get a 3-year-old Mercedes that has been turned back in to the Dealer under lease agreement for less than a lot of new VW's, and it's been dealer serviced the whole time. Since a lot of the value was lost already under the lease, you have slower depreciation and a higher class ride for about the same money as a new VW. Mercedes-Benz autos are very economical to fix yourself if YOU know how to do it YOURSELF. Parts are available through many outlets and they have parts availability like no other auto I ever owned. The parts cost about as much as, and sometimes less than, Ford truck parts. I could get M-B 300D fuel injectors for $42, a set of alternator brushes cost $4.12 at the dealer, and $212 for a brand new AC compressor. Hondas and Nissans will NOT be lower priced than that, and let's see how your "last forever" Honda looks after 26 years compared to that M-B 300D.
People who want enclosed space on their pickup truck install a camper shell or locking lid, and they have the option of removing it and using it as an open bed for bulky loads. They also have the option of installing a fifth wheel and pulling really big trailers with really big enclosed storage space that no minivan could ever match. I have hauled guitars and amps many times in my extended cab with the fold down rear seat that converts to a hard surface. I still had the whole bed for other things if needed.
As the local independent mechanics will tell you, nobody builds higher quality replacement parts than Ford, not even Mercedes-Benz. A Dallas engineer who was involved in the engineering of the transmission of my pickup truck told me that Ford specified some of the tightest specs they had ever met from any auto manufacturer. My ORIGINAL fan belt has 158K miles and there are NO cracks or pits in the V's anywhere and there is lots of wear left on the wear indicator. I ran the original spark plugs 130K miles with NO misfires whatsoever. I doubt that 4-bangers or V-6's could do that, as their engines turn too fast. Mine turns 2000 RPM at 78 MPH, or 1700 RPM at 70 MPH. About like a farm tractor engine, so it should get about as many hours/years before wearout. No little foreign engines remotely match those low RPM figures at similar speeds, and that determines your wear rate on engine parts. Barring a crash or excessive abuse after I sell it to the end user, my F-150 will outlast any car made except for something like a well maintained Mercedes-Benz.
In the book "The Millionaire Next Door", the most bought vehicle in America by millionaires was the Ford F-150 pickup. Ford is the top selling auto brand bought by millionaires in the USA. The book tells you how frugal millionaires really are, and how they demand value for their money. Mercedes-Benz is the top selling import car to millionaires, and many of them probably bought a 3-year-old S Class that was returned under lease agreement. The occupational class that produces the most millionaires is.....FARMING. Because of their frugality, not their high incomes. To own a millionaire's ride, head for your Ford dealer. Saving money is like making more money, and most millionaires are people that are tight with their money, not high income producers. Doctors and lawyers are the least likely to become millionaires according to their income levels. They are rarely good businessmen. I know enough wealthy farmers to know what shrewd businessmen they are. They aren't swayed by what Motor Trend magazine is pushing this year, and have enough sense to know that small sedans are death traps.
Any advice on a new car?
Robert,
I'm right up the 190, in Niagara Falls. The power of the net---small world!
To add to other posts:
As for the Honda CRV's, they were our first choice for an SUV. A friend has one and absolutely loves it. I've driven it and it is roomy and a very responsive vehicle. It is fun to drive, too. The storage in the back is huge---you can really fit a lot inside.
My wife really wanted to stick with a sedan, hence our purchase of the Passat. Supposedly, the Passat is the safest vehicle in its class today, overtaking the Volvo, which held it the title for some time.
I agree with Philip about the F150. I drive a 1998, which I purchased new. It is my first Ford---I had always preferred Chevy. After six years, I can honestly say the Ford is the best vehicle I've owned. It is loaded with options, has a great sound system, is as smooth as silk to drive, and the seats are extremely comfortable. Great vehicle overall.
Good luck in your quest.
Andrew
I'm right up the 190, in Niagara Falls. The power of the net---small world!
To add to other posts:
As for the Honda CRV's, they were our first choice for an SUV. A friend has one and absolutely loves it. I've driven it and it is roomy and a very responsive vehicle. It is fun to drive, too. The storage in the back is huge---you can really fit a lot inside.
My wife really wanted to stick with a sedan, hence our purchase of the Passat. Supposedly, the Passat is the safest vehicle in its class today, overtaking the Volvo, which held it the title for some time.
I agree with Philip about the F150. I drive a 1998, which I purchased new. It is my first Ford---I had always preferred Chevy. After six years, I can honestly say the Ford is the best vehicle I've owned. It is loaded with options, has a great sound system, is as smooth as silk to drive, and the seats are extremely comfortable. Great vehicle overall.
Good luck in your quest.
Andrew
Andrew
'05 4001C64, Fireglo
'03 4003, Jetglo
'05 4001C64, Fireglo
'03 4003, Jetglo
-
ibmindless
- New member
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:07 am
For the teacher, I'd recommend another Civic if reliability is his #1 issue. Or Acura Integra, Honda Accord, Acura CL/TL. I just finished reading Consumer's Reports latest compendium of tests and consumer feedback - they agree with the above advice.
As for the testimonials praising Ford - I've only had the exact opposite experience. I had a new 1990 Ford Ranger pickup with the 4.0 V6 and auto trans. At 13000 miles, I had to replace the alternator. Of course, the brand new car warranty was only good for 12000 miles, so they soaked me a few hundred for the alternator.
At 15000 the starter went out. Another few hundred down the drain. I discovered several years later that Ford had substandard solenoids that caused the starters to stop working. A class-action lawsuit was seeking remedy for hapless consumers - I don't know how it ended (if it isn't still in litigation).
At 17000, the starter went again. I replaced it, then sold the truck. I bought a new 1992 Ford Explorer. Fully decked out Eddie Bauer version. Worse piece of **** I've ever owned. The radiator leaked, the power steering leaked, the automatic transmission leaked, the air conditioning leaked freon. The front suspension crunched everytime I pulled into a parking spot and the power windows didn't work. The brakes failed every 3000 miles (warped rotors) and the starter was replaced twice. The battery was toast after 5 months.
I bought a new 1995 Thunderbird LX with the 4.6 V8. The brakes were replaced twice, the u-joints were going out after 5000 miles. I got rid of the junker and bought a new 1997 Acura Integra.
What a difference! NEVER had a problem. I sold it to a friend (still driving it to this day) and bought a 2001 Acura CL. Other than the rather infamous Acura transmission issue, I've had ZERO problems. And Acura guaranteed the new transmission for 7 additional years.
In my experience, made in Japan means reliability.
As for the testimonials praising Ford - I've only had the exact opposite experience. I had a new 1990 Ford Ranger pickup with the 4.0 V6 and auto trans. At 13000 miles, I had to replace the alternator. Of course, the brand new car warranty was only good for 12000 miles, so they soaked me a few hundred for the alternator.
At 15000 the starter went out. Another few hundred down the drain. I discovered several years later that Ford had substandard solenoids that caused the starters to stop working. A class-action lawsuit was seeking remedy for hapless consumers - I don't know how it ended (if it isn't still in litigation).
At 17000, the starter went again. I replaced it, then sold the truck. I bought a new 1992 Ford Explorer. Fully decked out Eddie Bauer version. Worse piece of **** I've ever owned. The radiator leaked, the power steering leaked, the automatic transmission leaked, the air conditioning leaked freon. The front suspension crunched everytime I pulled into a parking spot and the power windows didn't work. The brakes failed every 3000 miles (warped rotors) and the starter was replaced twice. The battery was toast after 5 months.
I bought a new 1995 Thunderbird LX with the 4.6 V8. The brakes were replaced twice, the u-joints were going out after 5000 miles. I got rid of the junker and bought a new 1997 Acura Integra.
What a difference! NEVER had a problem. I sold it to a friend (still driving it to this day) and bought a 2001 Acura CL. Other than the rather infamous Acura transmission issue, I've had ZERO problems. And Acura guaranteed the new transmission for 7 additional years.
In my experience, made in Japan means reliability.
Not to get anywere off topic, but it seems that cars today are really getting better in the way of gas mileage. For example, a few years ago I drove my '96 Ford Ranger with a 4 cylinder from Buffalo, NY to Utica, NY (about three quarters across the state) and I burned about half the tank. This past August, I took my '02 Buick Century with a V6 to Cape Cod. By the time I got to Albany, NY, I only used just over a quarter tank! Both vehicles have about the same size tank. Go figure.
My father has a 99 Buick Park Ave with the 3.8 V6 and he gets almost 30 mpg on the highway. (of course he's not exactly AJ Foit out there either)I like Buick Century's too bad there stopping them, I liked Oldsmobiles too, oh well. I don't like VW's because for years now starting with the rabbit if I remember right (I had one) some of their cars burn oil right from the get go and they claim it is normal and don't do anything to fix it. I don't like SUV's because they are top heavy and block the view of everyone behind you and suck down the gas because of their shape, a car with the same weight and engine would be better on gas. I simply do not understand the appeal of an SUV, never did. I like station wagons because they handle better because they have a lower center of gravity, are slightly more aerodynamic so are better on gas, and are just all around cooler especially with a 345 horse hemi V8 motor. I've driven some nice pickups but wouldn't want to drive one all the time.
Dad has a Ford taurus wagon company car. Its ok for what it is, but lacks the refinement and smoothness of the Acura 3.2.
The taurus had a sticker of 25,000 (it was still in the window when the semi dropped it at my house)Rite Aid has since switched to Volvo wagons because of reliability issues with the fords.
"I had always preferred Chevy"
lets not get started on GM products, I grew up in a GM town (driving my honda!)
Although, I believe it is the century that is the lowest to insure...
Trucks/SUVs have a higher crash-fatality rate then sedans. Too many people go along with the assumption that bigger is safer.
Always remember that assumption is the mother of all ...
I forgot about mitsubishi, they make some nice solid cars.
The reason your truck runs at low RPM is becasue it is tuned for torque, the reason a farm tractor lasts soo long is because it is a diesel. Semis go 500000 miles before a rebuild and then another 500000, easy.(diesles are built to withstand the much higher forces involved)
The taurus had a sticker of 25,000 (it was still in the window when the semi dropped it at my house)Rite Aid has since switched to Volvo wagons because of reliability issues with the fords.
"I had always preferred Chevy"
lets not get started on GM products, I grew up in a GM town (driving my honda!)
Although, I believe it is the century that is the lowest to insure...
Trucks/SUVs have a higher crash-fatality rate then sedans. Too many people go along with the assumption that bigger is safer.
Always remember that assumption is the mother of all ...
I forgot about mitsubishi, they make some nice solid cars.
The reason your truck runs at low RPM is becasue it is tuned for torque, the reason a farm tractor lasts soo long is because it is a diesel. Semis go 500000 miles before a rebuild and then another 500000, easy.(diesles are built to withstand the much higher forces involved)
The reason that diesels last so long is that diesels are fuel injected and diesel fuel is OIL. GM made some diesel engines that lasted 50K miles. To assume that diesels automatically have a longer life is very false. Design makes the biggest difference. The main reasons that gas engines once had much shorter lifespans was that: 1) They were carbureted and washed oil off the cylinders with excess gas when cold, especially with a malfunctioning choke. 2) Few owners ran top end lube in their gas and the metals were of lower quality in the past and wore rapidly. I run Marvel Mystery Oil every tankful of gas I buy and my father once used a quart of diesel oil in his gas tank to serve a similar purpose. MMO does a better job of keeping hard deposits from forming, which eats up valve guides and sticks rings and coats spark plugs. 3) The oil was very inferior in times past and had far less protective qualities. 4) Vintage gas did not have the cleaning agents and additives of today. 5) They were not designed to last as long, but were easy and relatively cheap to rebuild, and smog restrictions were not as strict allowing more oil burning and emissions before overhaul was mandatory. Thank goodness for modern engines that smoke less.
No matter what you drive, don't forget to use an oil filter with DEPTH MEDIA (micro filtration) in the design. A full flow filter is just a screen that only traps particles down to a certain size. You want to trap ultra fine particles and sludge as well. Leave the full flow racing filters on the shelf. Filter brands with depth media are: Motorcraft (Ford), Delco (GM), Mobil 1, Purolator Pure One(which builds Motorcraft), Hastings, and Amsoil. There are probably a few others, but the cheap low end Fram and Champion filters (who build for MANY private labels) are just a junk can you screw on your motor.
Don't forget the air filter!!! Dirty air ruins motors. Diesel engines often use oil bath filters, which work beau coup better than that paper piece of **** in your car. I use a K&N filter that is 4 layers of oiled cotton gauze which is somewhat similar. The new Fram Air Hog is really just a K&N copy. They cost $50 for an F-150 and are worth it. A recharge kit is about $10 and the filter is good for 250K miles.
If you REALLY want that big diesel truck motor mileage out of your gas motor, do this: 1) get a quality fuel injected engine and dope your gas with top end lube like I do. 2) Install an oiled media air filter like K&N or Fram Air Hog or Amsoil. 3) Use a depth media oil filter and change it often because when the depth media is clogged, it's just a regular full flow filter that passes small particles below 20 microns or so. You MUST achieve minimum of 10 micron filtration for least wear. 4) Run top quality fuel injector cleaner in your gas every oil change, like Bardahl All-You-Need, which is good for 5K miles. 5) Use synthetic oil if you are in any kind of severe duty status, like Minnesota cold or short trip city driving. 6) Change your oxygen sensors when they become old and sluggish. This point is often overlooked. O2 sensors have a 100K mile design life, or a bit longer if you drive at highway speed most of the time like I do. They will give false data to the engine computer and can over lean your air/fuel ratio. At 140K, my mileage was 24.75 MPG which was too high. I replaced ALL FOUR oxygen sensors with the exact same Bosch Premium part number for around $200 doing it myself, and the mileage immediately went back to the normal 22 MPG with less pinging on acceleration. Ford wanted $400 just for the sensors, not counting labor, but Bosch Premium is the exact same OEM sensor with the same part number on the body. You squirt some WD-40 on the sensors where they screw into your exhaust and wait 10 minutes, then they come off easily with a standard open end wrench. No need to buy a sensor wrench when you lube and wait. Replace your O2 sensors when they become sluggish, or risk ruining your engine in a hard pull at high speeds from a too lean mixture. On the F-150, the tendency is to run lean when the sensors age. Don't blame Ford or any other auto manufacturer; oxygen sensors wear out like spark plugs and should be replaced at around 100K in an F-150 or any vehicle that uses the same type Bosch sensors. Those of you with well over 100K miles on an electronic injected motor and no O2 sensor replacement are running on borrowed time. The DPFE sensor should be replaced as well, if it is a Ford with the old pot metal style sensor.
No matter what you drive, don't forget to use an oil filter with DEPTH MEDIA (micro filtration) in the design. A full flow filter is just a screen that only traps particles down to a certain size. You want to trap ultra fine particles and sludge as well. Leave the full flow racing filters on the shelf. Filter brands with depth media are: Motorcraft (Ford), Delco (GM), Mobil 1, Purolator Pure One(which builds Motorcraft), Hastings, and Amsoil. There are probably a few others, but the cheap low end Fram and Champion filters (who build for MANY private labels) are just a junk can you screw on your motor.
Don't forget the air filter!!! Dirty air ruins motors. Diesel engines often use oil bath filters, which work beau coup better than that paper piece of **** in your car. I use a K&N filter that is 4 layers of oiled cotton gauze which is somewhat similar. The new Fram Air Hog is really just a K&N copy. They cost $50 for an F-150 and are worth it. A recharge kit is about $10 and the filter is good for 250K miles.
If you REALLY want that big diesel truck motor mileage out of your gas motor, do this: 1) get a quality fuel injected engine and dope your gas with top end lube like I do. 2) Install an oiled media air filter like K&N or Fram Air Hog or Amsoil. 3) Use a depth media oil filter and change it often because when the depth media is clogged, it's just a regular full flow filter that passes small particles below 20 microns or so. You MUST achieve minimum of 10 micron filtration for least wear. 4) Run top quality fuel injector cleaner in your gas every oil change, like Bardahl All-You-Need, which is good for 5K miles. 5) Use synthetic oil if you are in any kind of severe duty status, like Minnesota cold or short trip city driving. 6) Change your oxygen sensors when they become old and sluggish. This point is often overlooked. O2 sensors have a 100K mile design life, or a bit longer if you drive at highway speed most of the time like I do. They will give false data to the engine computer and can over lean your air/fuel ratio. At 140K, my mileage was 24.75 MPG which was too high. I replaced ALL FOUR oxygen sensors with the exact same Bosch Premium part number for around $200 doing it myself, and the mileage immediately went back to the normal 22 MPG with less pinging on acceleration. Ford wanted $400 just for the sensors, not counting labor, but Bosch Premium is the exact same OEM sensor with the same part number on the body. You squirt some WD-40 on the sensors where they screw into your exhaust and wait 10 minutes, then they come off easily with a standard open end wrench. No need to buy a sensor wrench when you lube and wait. Replace your O2 sensors when they become sluggish, or risk ruining your engine in a hard pull at high speeds from a too lean mixture. On the F-150, the tendency is to run lean when the sensors age. Don't blame Ford or any other auto manufacturer; oxygen sensors wear out like spark plugs and should be replaced at around 100K in an F-150 or any vehicle that uses the same type Bosch sensors. Those of you with well over 100K miles on an electronic injected motor and no O2 sensor replacement are running on borrowed time. The DPFE sensor should be replaced as well, if it is a Ford with the old pot metal style sensor.
-
soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1921
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
Hey Phillip, we can all see you like Fords, and thats fine. I have to take exception to a statement you made however.
"Barring a crash or excessive abuse after I sell it to the end user, my F-150 will outlast any car made except for something like a well maintained Mercedes-Benz."
Mercedes-Benz makes a great car, and Ford's are good too, but I think saying it will outlast any car made is a bit of a blanket statement that isn't really very accurate. I've had neighbors who have had Fords and have taken care of them and still have had less than 150,000 miles. I refer you to the following links for something supporting my view.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/broebuck/id54.htm
http://www.carpages.co.uk/volvo/volvo_p1800_12_08_02.asp?switched=on&echo=444972579
http://www.car-data.com/xpage.features/features.template.asp?FtrNC=irv.gordon
Also, one reason that diesels last so long is their engines are much heavier duty than a comparable gas engine because they have to be to withstand the higher pressures in the engine. Having said that, if you take care of any car, it will serve you well with a long life. I have a mid 80's Audi Quattro with 250k on the clock and still going stong, never had the head off. Many guys in the local club have 350k and up, and never had the head off either. I've even heard of a couple late 60's Porsche 911's, which aren't known for lasting a long time, yet they have over 150k on the clock and still going strong with the original engine without a rebuild. The most important thing if you want a car to last is to take care of it.
"Barring a crash or excessive abuse after I sell it to the end user, my F-150 will outlast any car made except for something like a well maintained Mercedes-Benz."
Mercedes-Benz makes a great car, and Ford's are good too, but I think saying it will outlast any car made is a bit of a blanket statement that isn't really very accurate. I've had neighbors who have had Fords and have taken care of them and still have had less than 150,000 miles. I refer you to the following links for something supporting my view.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/broebuck/id54.htm
http://www.carpages.co.uk/volvo/volvo_p1800_12_08_02.asp?switched=on&echo=444972579
http://www.car-data.com/xpage.features/features.template.asp?FtrNC=irv.gordon
Also, one reason that diesels last so long is their engines are much heavier duty than a comparable gas engine because they have to be to withstand the higher pressures in the engine. Having said that, if you take care of any car, it will serve you well with a long life. I have a mid 80's Audi Quattro with 250k on the clock and still going stong, never had the head off. Many guys in the local club have 350k and up, and never had the head off either. I've even heard of a couple late 60's Porsche 911's, which aren't known for lasting a long time, yet they have over 150k on the clock and still going strong with the original engine without a rebuild. The most important thing if you want a car to last is to take care of it.
You nailed it Philip, any modern engine is probably capable of lasting at least 150k (conservative est) If you take care of the engine.
Clean oil, clean fuel, clean air - the best you can manage. a light foot and reqular service!
Some notorious older car diesles were nothing more then their gas counterpart with a glow plug and higher compression ratios. They werent designed or built for diesel fuel, which is why they faild so prematurly.
Big rigs have a lot of cool tech that allows crazy miles before service, and highly servicable parts. I wish cars would adopt some of it, like removable SS cylinder liners.
That being said, youll never get big rig mileage out of a consumer vehicle. (Rigs cost a couple hundred dollars, and are maintained daily) consumer products are designed to fail (just like our fridges)..., but only to the point of the public's patience and pocketbook
Any brand you buy you will have a chance of a lemon, some manufacturers you will have less chance. If the vehicle has 10k mile on it, you can probably tell if it has problems - dont forget your carfax!(worth the investment)
JP
Clean oil, clean fuel, clean air - the best you can manage. a light foot and reqular service!
Some notorious older car diesles were nothing more then their gas counterpart with a glow plug and higher compression ratios. They werent designed or built for diesel fuel, which is why they faild so prematurly.
Big rigs have a lot of cool tech that allows crazy miles before service, and highly servicable parts. I wish cars would adopt some of it, like removable SS cylinder liners.
That being said, youll never get big rig mileage out of a consumer vehicle. (Rigs cost a couple hundred dollars, and are maintained daily) consumer products are designed to fail (just like our fridges)..., but only to the point of the public's patience and pocketbook
Any brand you buy you will have a chance of a lemon, some manufacturers you will have less chance. If the vehicle has 10k mile on it, you can probably tell if it has problems - dont forget your carfax!(worth the investment)
JP
If I owned a house and had something to haul besides an amp + guitar on a regular basis, I'd consider a pickup. As it is, the cargo capacity on my old civic was pushed to the limit *maybe* once per year, if that. Either relocating or helping someone else move. OTOH I haul kids around (and adults) fairly regularly, and a real passenger cab is nice. Of course, on a well designed 5-door you get the best of both worlds.
If I were a landscaper or did regular yard work, I'd get a pickup without thinking about it.
Also. . . MPG is a pretty important priority. . . I find it socially irresponsible to drive gas guzzlers without necesity. Not only for the environment, but also because the factor that makes gas expensive is high demand for it.
If I were a landscaper or did regular yard work, I'd get a pickup without thinking about it.
Also. . . MPG is a pretty important priority. . . I find it socially irresponsible to drive gas guzzlers without necesity. Not only for the environment, but also because the factor that makes gas expensive is high demand for it.
"The only worthwhile conquests are those wrested from ignorance"
-Napoleon
-Napoleon
Got a 1990 Chevy Suburban with 245K on the engine with original parts except for the water pump which I lost in June and the transmission which gave out in the East Texas sand last winter.
Bought it from the original owner who changed the oil every 2500 miles and I am doing the same. He had the original dealers brochure that he got when he bought the vehicle along with the shop manual and the electrical manual. Both cost around $150 each but I have gotton my money out them already.
Nothing beats preventive maintenance... my '85 Dodge truck had 213K on it when I sold it to my stepson. Air conditioner still blowing cold air and the heater worked great!Never drove it over 65 mph... honest. Never needed to... I got where I needed as fast as I wanted. It made it from Texas to British Columbia and back in it's second summer. Had great memories in the Dodge. Last year of the normally aspirated straight 6. No electronics of any kind... just a straight up engine that started from the battery and worked with a carb...
Baby them along and they will last a lifetime!
Any car will be of value if you just
Bought it from the original owner who changed the oil every 2500 miles and I am doing the same. He had the original dealers brochure that he got when he bought the vehicle along with the shop manual and the electrical manual. Both cost around $150 each but I have gotton my money out them already.
Nothing beats preventive maintenance... my '85 Dodge truck had 213K on it when I sold it to my stepson. Air conditioner still blowing cold air and the heater worked great!Never drove it over 65 mph... honest. Never needed to... I got where I needed as fast as I wanted. It made it from Texas to British Columbia and back in it's second summer. Had great memories in the Dodge. Last year of the normally aspirated straight 6. No electronics of any kind... just a straight up engine that started from the battery and worked with a carb...
Baby them along and they will last a lifetime!
Any car will be of value if you just
"Whatcha ya gonna do now, Rich?"
John, I think youve got your own answer. The only good 5 door I can think of is the VW Golf 5 door.
The back seat would be decent for kids or adults, and you got your choice of engines.
you cant beat a 3 door hatchback for occasional odd objects, but for people moving you definetly want 4 passenger doors.
Accord comes to mind as a 4-door alt, but generally I think Accords are underpowered. Or you might want to test out an Acura 3.2 TL and a VW Jetta...
But all of those notch-backs loose out on the large cargo bay of the golf's hatch, but your amp and guitar will probably fit in the acura's trunk.
maybe take your gear on a test drive!!
unless you wana talk wagons, Ill stop posting redundantly
JP
The back seat would be decent for kids or adults, and you got your choice of engines.
you cant beat a 3 door hatchback for occasional odd objects, but for people moving you definetly want 4 passenger doors.
Accord comes to mind as a 4-door alt, but generally I think Accords are underpowered. Or you might want to test out an Acura 3.2 TL and a VW Jetta...
But all of those notch-backs loose out on the large cargo bay of the golf's hatch, but your amp and guitar will probably fit in the acura's trunk.
maybe take your gear on a test drive!!
unless you wana talk wagons, Ill stop posting redundantly
JP