Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

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melibreits
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Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by melibreits »

Had an interesting incident yesterday when I tried to post a cover song on YouTube.... I recorded a video of myself playing Linkin Park's song "Burning in the Skies," and posted it to YouTube, and within five minutes got an email message from YouTube saying that my video may be an infringement of copyright law. Now I am not a professional musician, and I have absolutely nothing to gain financially from posting this song; just thought I'd share my take on it for those friends who are interested in hearing it... But I pulled the video down, and have contacted EMI music asking their permission to post my video--but this has never happened to me before. Has anyone else had an experience like this when posting cover songs to YouTube? With all the millions of people posting their covers on YouTube, why would they show any interest at all in mine? Just curious.... would love some feedback from somebody in the know!
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Grey
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by Grey »

It could have been an automatic message depending on what category you placed the video in, and what the title was. I'd leave it and if they think its a problem they can remove it.
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tyarbrough
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by tyarbrough »

Hey Melissa,

This is something I've looked into a bit. What happens is Youtube has an automated system a database of copyrighted material they compare to uploaded videos. This applies to music, movies, etc. If something matches, they can do two things:

1) They can block the video or the audio.
2) They can allow the video but place ads or links in your video to profit the publisher.

Youtube has different deals with different publishers...Warner Music Group does not have a deal. If your content matches their stuff, Youtube will block it. Most of the covers I have done, they just put the links in there.

If you receive a "Strike" notice from the actual publisher via YT, this is more serious and several of these can cause YT to delete your account.
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clementc3
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by clementc3 »

I think youtube has a "bot"/computerized program that scans videos for potential copyright issues. I posted 8 cover songs and youtube emailed me about two of them. (I guess that means that youtube couldn't recognize six of our covers - I thought we were better than that but maybe we really sucked! :lol: )

I dug around on the internet and my best guess is that this is youtube doing a CYA: if they recognize cover songs that the publishers or record companies (who own two different sets of copyrights) have put youtube on notice about, then youtube sends you a notice. If the song owned by a particularly vigilant copyright owner (and songs by The Eagles apparently fall into this category) then youtube will act and take it down. Generally, though, it looks like youtube feels like they have done (most of) their duty by giving you a notice. Some copyright owners want covers removed, and others tolerate them - the covers are (arguably) free marketing, although they would never admit that.

Youtube reportedly has a "three strikes" rule, although I think a mere warning does not count as a strike. Three strikes and youtube disables your account and you have to start all over; anything that you saved by uploading to youtube will thereafter be inaccessible, so if you don't have a copy on your home computer or video camera you will be SOL.

This seems to be a murky area, because I think others have tried to get permission to post a cover from the copyright owner, but the usual response is no response. I think the copyright owner for a cover is the publisher, not the record company: the record company (EMI, in your case) owns the rights to the actual recording of the song on the record/CD, but not the underlying song itself (the notes and lyrics). The publisher owns the rights to the notes and lyrics, which is what a cover reproduces, and it seems that most publishers are unresponsive (because they are not the mega-billion dollar conglomerates like EMI).

For those of you who are still reading (I know most of you have yawned and clicked back to (Active Topics), here is what I sent to my bandmates:

There is some interesting information here:

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/y ... b915&hl=en

The fact is that you need up to three separate licenses to legally publish a video with someone else's copyright music included. [We would need only the latter two listed below]

First you may need a master license for the actual sound recording. If you use any kind of backing track (instrumental, karaoke, etc) you need a license. [We don't need this first one.] Second you need a license that allows you to embody the musical work in a sound recording (called a mechanical license). And lastly you need a license that allows you to embody the musical work in a video recording (called a synchronisation license).

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/y ... a043&hl=en

Who has what copyrights? A snippet:

The way it usually works in the case of an artist that writes their own music is that they sign over the rights to the "written work" to a publisher and the "recorded work" to a label (record company). In return the artist does not have to deal with all the administative work, but they will only get a cut of any licensing money earned.

So, in the case of cover song videos, it is the publisher who needs to be dealt with.

http://www.musicianwages.com/the-workin ... ver-songs/

http://brandsplusmusic.blogspot.com/201 ... utube.html

http://adamrafferty.wordpress.com/2010/ ... ver-songs/

An excerpt from the Adam Rafferty link:

... anyone’s cover tunes on Youtube are flat out, no questions asked copyright infringement. Yep, if you are not paying for a license, it is copyright infringement. Does not matter if you did it for fun and not for money, does not matter if it is YOU playing the song.
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kiramdear
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by kiramdear »

Melissa, you'll never get permission from EMI. They won't even consider an individual request like yours. I went through a similar ordeal some time ago. :(
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electrofaro
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by electrofaro »

If it's just you doing a song on a youtube video without any original recording as backing, what it comes down to is:

you are playing a song someone has a right to. Which means that you owe someone money, probably some government agency or public organisation that collects money you have to pay for performance of a song. At least that's what it's like in Holland and most of Europe... the actual amount can vary. I've heard of a case in Holland where a band had to pay 250 EUR for performing just one cover live!

Some record companies don't like people performing their song for free, without anything being paid for performing! And as Youtube is basically free, not collecting money... you'd own the rights owners money for every country your video's seen!
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melibreits
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by melibreits »

Thanks, everybody.... This information is all very interesting. I emailed EMI yesterday, and will wait a week or so to see what they say. If they do not respond, I suppose I will upload the song again and see what happens. Like I said, I've posted cover songs before (even one by the same band), and have never gotten that type of notification from YouTube before. However, I did notice that YouTube's format for uploading is different now and easier to use; they may have upgraded their filtering software as well to forestall potential copyright issues.
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by clementc3 »

I think EMI has the rights to Linkin Park's actual recording of the song; if your video had actually used the recorded version (as background music, for instance), EMI would have some rights in your video. Since you posted a cover of the song, EMI probably does not have any rights or a financial interest in it. However, the writers/publisher(s) do.

The sheet music of "Burning In the Skies" on musicnotes.com says:

"Copyright 2010 by Universal Music - Z Songs, Chesterchaz Publishing, Rob Bourdon Music, Nondisclosure Agreement Music, Pancakey Cakes Music, Big Bad Mr. Hahn Music and Kenji Kobayashi Music.

"All Rights Administered by Universal Music - Z Songs"

Universal Music - Z Songs looks like the relevant copyright owner if you want to try to do the correct thing. Universal Music Publishing Group http://www.umusicpub.com/ has a search engine (SYNCHEXPRESS or syncexpress.com) if you want to license an actual recording (if, for instance, you are a TV commercial producer) but I couldn't find anything on their site regarding licensing for doing a cover of a song. They sure don't make it easy!
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rickinroma
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by rickinroma »

Melissa
I get exactly the same email message and the copyright warning everytime I upload a video of myself dubbing the basslines of Paul McCartney/Beatles.
My videos are still there. Should they decide one day to remove them it will not be a tragedy for me :)
Until that day comes, let's enjoy the opportunity
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jdogric12
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by jdogric12 »

I wonder if it matters whether you type in the name of the song/artist or not.


I can understand why the copyright owners protect it:

Let's say you've never heard of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and I tell you, "Hey, you should check out this really cool band called Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. You'd really like their song 'The Waiting.'" So, knowing I have really good taste in music, you go to YouTube to check out my recommendation. You search their site for "tom petty and the heartbreakers the waiting" and get 2,761 search results. You pick one near the top and end up watching a video of a garage band of 15-year-olds stumble through the song on the lovely Dean guitars they just got for Christmas. You'd think to yourself, "Wow, Tom Petty sucks." You may also think, "Jason's losing it."
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by JakeK »

According to Pat Hayes, member here and leader of The Byrds Collective, YT has been cracking down on Bob Dylan songs and covers, whether it's the original version by the man himself, a cover or even The Byrds Collectives' cover of one of his songs, they're getting yanked...big time. Bob probably is thinking what you just wrote, Jdog.
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Halbert
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by Halbert »

The real question is, what if you own mechanical rights to perform the song then YouTube come right behind you and flags your video because the automated system does not know you have the rights to publish your rendition?
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by clementc3 »

You are right to worry that the Youtube automated system probably doesn't know whether you have acquired rights. It seems to be a brainless "bot".

Here is a link to the best of of the sites mentioned in my earlier mind-numbing post:
http://brandsplusmusic.blogspot.com/201 ... utube.html

Note that "mechanical rights" give you the right to record the song onto a physical audio medium like a CD but they do not give you "synchronization rights" which are the right to use the recording to accompany a video. Pomplemousse is quoted in the brandsplusmusic blog as saying that their videos are in the clear because they have obtained mechanical rights but I think they also need synchronization rights to be completely clear. YMMV, though.
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Halbert
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by Halbert »

I'll bet nobody has complaind about Pomplamoose covering their music..
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pehayes2
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Re: Copyright question about YouTube cover songs

Post by pehayes2 »

I just want to clarify something Jake said. We've posted many cover songs on YouTube. A lot of them Bob Dylan songs. We get the courtesy email indicating that a song may be an infringement. We just watch them and wait for YouTube to take them down when the respective publishing authority complains. This has never happened to us. The only time one did get yanked was when I postsed the introduction video to the show (so the other guys could review it). The video was sort of a montage of the history of Rock and Roll and we used part of the actual song from Bob Dylan, Like A Rolling Stone. That my friends, really got their attention and it was removed. Never has a cover been removed (unless I take them down).

BTW we do have a mechanical license for My Back Pages from Bob Dylan so our recordings are legal (for that song). We only sell that song, all the others we give away. He makes money from us every time we sell a song. We expected a Christmas card from him last year, but alas, we got nothing.

Edit* Clementc3 is correct to show them on YouTube you do need a separate synchronization license.
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