Roger has the Jangle back

Those who flock to The Byrds

Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (janglebox) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:51 pm

For those of you who've been a bit disappointed with Roger's restrained Rickenbacker sound in recent live performances, listen to the sound he gets on the latest Folk Den tune, "The Month of January". Self promotion aside, I think it's really gorgeous. To my ears it seems like a bit of a departure from his usual high attack compression — almost like a harpsichord.

Listen especially closely at 1:50 and also to the outro. Beautiful stuff, imo.

http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/folkden/php/search/
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (beatbyrd) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:00 pm

Hi Steve..... I agree that his guitars tracks sound refreshingly good. It's not typical Byrds jangle, but it's a nice tone and it fits the song well. I wouldn't say that it embodies the signature Rickenbacker 12 string sound, however. There are other electric 12s that can sound like this. What shocked me was the caliber of the vocals.... Wow! I could not get through the entire song. I'm certainly no Caruso, but this is not anywhere near his best effort, at least to my tired ears. It might just be the timing issues on the double tracking. Maybe a single vocal track would have been a better idea. Still, it's a step in the right direction and better than his recent live guitar sound that I've heard.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (242_foxtrot) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:40 pm

Steve, I agree with you. Beautiful sounding 12 string. The songs reminds me of "Space Odyssey" off The Notorious Byrd Brothers album. I also like Roger's vocals.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (janglebox) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:34 pm

I think many of us consider the classic Byrds/Rickenbacker sound as the intensely treble, double-compression attack of MTM and TTT. But Roger has always experimented. My Back Pages is quintessential Byrds, but it's somewhat different from that highly compressed sound and the EQ is more balanced. Ditto Everybody's Been Burned, Change is Now, Tribal Gathering, etc.

Photos from back in the day show Roger using the neck pickup at some performances — something you never saw him do in the '90s and early aughts. I know that "Byrd wiring" and the too-tightly-wound pickups on his RM model were also factors. But based on reports from Karl Valois and others, I think Roger is evolving his sound away from that hard treble of yore. It's still distinctly his own and I really like the way he's adapted it on The Month of January. Whether his intent is to spare our ever diminished hearing or simply because he's always mixed it up, is anyone's guess. :)

As for the Folk Den vocals, they sound fine to me, but I wish he had moved them up a bit more prominently in the mix.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (janglebox) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:37 pm

242_foxtrot wrote:Steve, I agree with you. Beautiful sounding 12 string. The songs reminds me of "Space Odyssey" off The Notorious Byrd Brothers album. I also like Roger's vocals.

That's the song! Thanks Paul — I knew I was hearing something else that was familiar in there and I couldn't quite get it.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (kvalois) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:37 pm

Hi, everyone:

I was pleased when I went to the Folk Den on January 1. Quite frankly, I still check out Roger's monthly song because I hope to hear that classic Rickenbacker sound that we all love!! Steve Lasko is correct in that Roger's 12-string sounds "gorgeous"-- although, in TONE, it certainly is a different type of sound.

Again, for those members who may not know, Camilla (Roger's wife) and I have had some extended conversations over the years-- when I go to Roger's concerts in Connecticut. About a year ago, she told me that Roger likes to use the Ric only sparingly because it is too "shrill-sounding." The audience needs a respite from this--hence, the acoustic Martins dominate his shows.

So, as Steve and others have suggested, perhaps Roger is experimenting with different tones!! I would love for Steve to post an extended analysis of the ever-changing sound of Roger's 12-string Ric. I agree that most of us would still love to hear, as Steve puts it, that "intensely treble, double-compression attack of MTM and TTT."

I will say that in 1966, with the 5D album, I noticed that Roger's tone was changing. And, in the following year, I absolutely loved the timeless solo on "My Back Pages." But, the sound was evolving!

So, Steve, if you have a minute or two, can you tell us how Roger's 12-string Rickenbacker changed over the years??? :D
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (Byrdfan1948) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:11 pm

Wow Tom, I agree with you 100%!!! I'll give Roger credit here for at least addressing a lot of our comments regarding the lack of any jangle in his guitar recently. But these vocals are very hard to listen to. I enjoyed the vastly improved guitar sound, but as you correctly point out the vocals were at best lacking. Especially for someone who still has a great voice. I have no idea why he seems to like that doubling sound so common in so many of his Folk Den tunes.

Karl Valois was just over at my studio the other day with another Yahoo Byrds brother, Rick Meccariello doing some recording. We were kicking around the idea of catching Roger's two shows here in CT this spring. I'm on the fence. Too many disappointing shows over the last 4 or 5 years, and your recent experience out your way sounds way too familiar.

I've long ago given up hope he would resign a now faded pick guard he once signed, but if for one more time Roger would meet us again after the show I'd love to ask him why he records as he does. As far as I know he is using Pro Tools like we do.

But then since I know Karl will probably go, I can probably just let him ask the question for me, if he gets past the "security detail" :-).. Al
Last edited by Byrdfan1948 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (Byrdfan1948) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:11 pm

Hey Karl, I see your up late tonight :-) Al
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (jimk) » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:23 am

janglebox wrote:
As for the Folk Den vocals, they sound fine to me, but I wish he had moved them up a bit more prominently in the mix.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. I had to read the lyric sheet to make sure I understood what he was singing.
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (kvalois) » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:01 pm

Hi, Al and everyone:

I would also have to agree with those members who think that Roger can do better vocally on the song. Too often, he does that "double voicing." And, Al is right-- Roger has a beautiful voice still!!!! :D
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Re: Roger has the Jangle back

Postby (drumbob) » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:04 pm

I wuld have loved to have heard the Byrds do that song. It sounds like something from the 5D era.
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