Hi All....in case anyone buys or sells and uses PayPal....go here and read this. Read the Forum.
http://paypalsucks.com/
Dave
PayPal Flim-Flam
PayPal Flim-Flam
I've had 4 wives but I still have my 60' 360!
David: Thanks for pointing this out.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Thanks David, that looks like a great site. I had at one time some links to other PayPal victims' sites; I'll see if I can find them, as they were quite good.
One other thing about PayPal that I don't like is that one's address is listed as "Unconfirmed" when, in fact, it is only "Un-credit-carded" - having a credit card is the ONLY criterion for 'confirming' an address. I find this discriminatory and misleading.
I hope that some day a court will find PayPal complicitous in the fraud that goes on under their auspices (it would be nice if that happened for eBay iself, too) and make them finally take resonsibility for their inaction. If I were a conspiracy-theory adherent, I would consider that PayPal is ignoring the problem simply because they make so much money by ignoring it (and possibly that they are being paid under the table by organized crime to continue ignoring it). Unfortunately; a similar system is in place in the credit card industry; if credit card companies didn't profit so much from fraud (remember, they make money not only on the transactions, but also on the insurance compensation for their 'losses' - a win-win situation for them but a lose-lose situation for the consumer), they would clamp down so hard that very little, if any, criminal activity could be done through their system.
One other thing about PayPal that I don't like is that one's address is listed as "Unconfirmed" when, in fact, it is only "Un-credit-carded" - having a credit card is the ONLY criterion for 'confirming' an address. I find this discriminatory and misleading.
I hope that some day a court will find PayPal complicitous in the fraud that goes on under their auspices (it would be nice if that happened for eBay iself, too) and make them finally take resonsibility for their inaction. If I were a conspiracy-theory adherent, I would consider that PayPal is ignoring the problem simply because they make so much money by ignoring it (and possibly that they are being paid under the table by organized crime to continue ignoring it). Unfortunately; a similar system is in place in the credit card industry; if credit card companies didn't profit so much from fraud (remember, they make money not only on the transactions, but also on the insurance compensation for their 'losses' - a win-win situation for them but a lose-lose situation for the consumer), they would clamp down so hard that very little, if any, criminal activity could be done through their system.
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Exactly Gary.....and for the folks that are confused about PayPal here is what can happen.
I buy your nice shiny RIC guitar for $1000. I transfer money to PayPal and you send me the guitar to a address different than what I registered with. Before I get the guitar, I cancel the PayPal transaction and PayPal refunds the $1000 to my account. I receive your guitar. You lost your $1000 AND your RIC.
PayPal says it's your problem because you sent the guitar to a 'non-registered' address.
And it's legal.
This is sort of an offshoot or variation of the Nigerian scam that so many folks have been suckered into.
Dont EVER sell anything unless you get a US Government Money Order in your hands and cash it first.
Then, mail out your item.
There are several more PayPal scenarios that Flim and Flam have discovered as well as some quasi dishonest actions that PayPal will do.
The link I gave on an earlier post will give you a good read and even if you dont have any intention to use PayPal, this site will make you aware of the creative thoughts that have been put into this type of online transaction.
Dave
I buy your nice shiny RIC guitar for $1000. I transfer money to PayPal and you send me the guitar to a address different than what I registered with. Before I get the guitar, I cancel the PayPal transaction and PayPal refunds the $1000 to my account. I receive your guitar. You lost your $1000 AND your RIC.
PayPal says it's your problem because you sent the guitar to a 'non-registered' address.
And it's legal.
This is sort of an offshoot or variation of the Nigerian scam that so many folks have been suckered into.
Dont EVER sell anything unless you get a US Government Money Order in your hands and cash it first.
Then, mail out your item.
There are several more PayPal scenarios that Flim and Flam have discovered as well as some quasi dishonest actions that PayPal will do.
The link I gave on an earlier post will give you a good read and even if you dont have any intention to use PayPal, this site will make you aware of the creative thoughts that have been put into this type of online transaction.
Dave
I've had 4 wives but I still have my 60' 360!
I have to disagree strongly with all of this. I'm sure PayPal is not error-free, but in every example I saw when I scanned through those posts on their forum, PayPal was acting within the terms and conditions you agree to when you sign up. Don't agree with their terms and conditions? Then don't use PayPal.
Here's what most of the complainants misunderstand: PayPal is NOT a fraud protection service. It's just a convenient means of transferring funds.
"PayPal says it's your problem because you sent the guitar to a 'non-registered' address.
And it's legal".
No, what the buyer did was not legal, it was federal wire fraud. PayPal's action was completely within their rules. If you want to ship to an unverified buyer, it's your gamble and they make you aware of that if you read the terms and conditions.
Look at it this way: if you had accepted a personal check from that buyer, and he drained his account of funds and the check bounced, would you blame the buyer's bank? Would you put up a website claiming that the bank sucks? No? Then why blame PayPal?
One of those posts that really got me was someone who shipped to Indonesia and then complained about PayPal. That person knew he was selling to a thief and yet it's somehow PayPal's fault.
Bottom line: if shipping to an unverified PayPal account is not secure enough for you, don't do it. If the protection offered by PayPal's Verified program isn't secure enough for you, don't do it. But if you choose to do it, you are playing by their rules.
Here's what most of the complainants misunderstand: PayPal is NOT a fraud protection service. It's just a convenient means of transferring funds.
"PayPal says it's your problem because you sent the guitar to a 'non-registered' address.
And it's legal".
No, what the buyer did was not legal, it was federal wire fraud. PayPal's action was completely within their rules. If you want to ship to an unverified buyer, it's your gamble and they make you aware of that if you read the terms and conditions.
Look at it this way: if you had accepted a personal check from that buyer, and he drained his account of funds and the check bounced, would you blame the buyer's bank? Would you put up a website claiming that the bank sucks? No? Then why blame PayPal?
One of those posts that really got me was someone who shipped to Indonesia and then complained about PayPal. That person knew he was selling to a thief and yet it's somehow PayPal's fault.
Bottom line: if shipping to an unverified PayPal account is not secure enough for you, don't do it. If the protection offered by PayPal's Verified program isn't secure enough for you, don't do it. But if you choose to do it, you are playing by their rules.
Dave...you misunderstood me....the con artist are using PayPal as a way to rob unwary sellers.
PayPal itself apparently does nothing wrong in the scenario I gave, HOWEVER, there are plenty of other issues that ARE attributable to PayPal and the courts of this country agree. I expect at some point that their practices will have to be severly modified.
Use PayPal if you must but beware....like they said on the forum, PP will get you now or PP will get you later......but they WILL get you!
Let the user beware...
PayPal itself apparently does nothing wrong in the scenario I gave, HOWEVER, there are plenty of other issues that ARE attributable to PayPal and the courts of this country agree. I expect at some point that their practices will have to be severly modified.
Use PayPal if you must but beware....like they said on the forum, PP will get you now or PP will get you later......but they WILL get you!
Let the user beware...
I've had 4 wives but I still have my 60' 360!
I think all of us has had one gripe or another with Paypal. I think maybe we're all a little frazzled on their reps' lack of knowledge, thus treating the innocent party as a potential fraud risk by "freezing" our accounts, then having to send them all our banking info for whatever reason they need that for, I don't know.
I read above on David's post on 9/24. i cannot figure out how to cancel a Paypal transaction. Last year I sent a $400 payment to someone from a funding source I didn't want to use. So I contacted Paypal to reverse it, all I got was that we cannot reverse it. I explained that it was an account that was still in my cache and I didn't figure out how to delete it at the time. They told me that I'd have to call the reciever to issue a refund. Well, the account was closed. So Paypal then reversed it as a chargeback. I then quickly paid the seller a minute later using a valid account. He got his payment, there were no grudges held as it was an honest mistake. But I was on Paypals blacklist for a year. I couldn't use instant transfers, and to this day I still can't do an instant transfer- it's either an e-check or credit card. I called them to ask why the instant transfer function was disabled on me- they said because I posed a risk. I don't get it!
I read above on David's post on 9/24. i cannot figure out how to cancel a Paypal transaction. Last year I sent a $400 payment to someone from a funding source I didn't want to use. So I contacted Paypal to reverse it, all I got was that we cannot reverse it. I explained that it was an account that was still in my cache and I didn't figure out how to delete it at the time. They told me that I'd have to call the reciever to issue a refund. Well, the account was closed. So Paypal then reversed it as a chargeback. I then quickly paid the seller a minute later using a valid account. He got his payment, there were no grudges held as it was an honest mistake. But I was on Paypals blacklist for a year. I couldn't use instant transfers, and to this day I still can't do an instant transfer- it's either an e-check or credit card. I called them to ask why the instant transfer function was disabled on me- they said because I posed a risk. I don't get it!
"Take the RIC... Leave the cannoli."
Don....probably because PP found out the other guy's account was closed at the time you asked PP to reverse it and to PP, it looked like you were attempting to transfer money to you from a closed account, then immediately withdraw it from your own account thereby robbing PP.
I don't understand all the in's and out's of PP because I don't use it but there seems to be plenty of ways to hose yourself as well.
Dave
I don't understand all the in's and out's of PP because I don't use it but there seems to be plenty of ways to hose yourself as well.
Dave
I've had 4 wives but I still have my 60' 360!