4001G63 wrote:Michael,
I am finally starting to get the picture. You had mentioned this in an earlier post on this topic. If you read Dane Wilder's post about his unit he created for split signal for mono Ricks (like my V63) , it is sort of the same concept. I gotta ask him about that unit.
Yes, Dane's harness sounds like a great setup for a single output Rick.
Yes,
The two amp system with the line out and eq to the second amp increasing the low mids etc. is
definitely the simplest soloution.
Knowing me,if I had Danes harness I would be messing up the pull/push routine and
getting myself in a right old knot.
Its a great soloution though if you are ok with the switching.
pag wrote:The "stereo" setup is interesting because when you think about it if you select only one pickup then only one amp
would be producing sound.
Squire doesn't use a "stereo" amp rig. He has repeatedly stated that the reason he wired his basses with stereo outputs was to have the option of sending one or both pickups to an effect. The output of the effect switching unit is mono, and that signal is routed into the Marshall and the SVTs.
Bassically, Michael
Well, he may not do so any more (and as I've observed, his tracks from Fragile onward all appear to be centred in mono), but clearly, on "Starship Trooper" and "Perpetual Change" at least, the two pickups are coming from different places in the stereo picture. So at least on those songs he was in fact running them into separate amps, at least in the studio. There are pictures and videos (particularly from the Musikladen performance) where both of his cords are seen going into the the same channel of one of his Dual Showmans, so clearly separating them wasn't his raison d'etre (and as you point out, he has said that the reason was to run the pickups through separate effects), but he obviously did experiment with it, and the results are there to be heard on at least two of their classic recordings from one of their defining albums.
pacealot wrote:
Well, he may not do so any more (and as I've observed, his tracks from Fragile onward all appear to be centred in mono), but clearly, on "Starship Trooper" and "Perpetual Change" at least, the two pickups are coming from different places in the stereo picture. So at least on those songs he was in fact running them into separate amps, at least in the studio. There are pictures and videos (particularly from the Musikladen performance) where both of his cords are seen going into the the same channel of one of his Dual Showmans, so clearly separating them wasn't his raison d'etre (and as you point out, he has said that the reason was to run the pickups through separate effects), but he obviously did experiment with it, and the results are there to be heard on at least two of their classic recordings from one of their defining albums.
I've often wondered if on PC, he may have taken a DI on the neck pickup and ran the bridge pickup thru his amp. The times where he's only on the neck p/u it's a very clean sound. Also, this is only happens for the first 5.09 minutes, after that it goes to mono. As to SsT, it sounds to me like Eddie Offord used two mics on the amp and eq'ed one for bass and one for treble and panned them right/left. Both have the same tremolo and Chris has stated that he used both pickups with the tremolo. There's no way he could have synced two Dual Showman reverbs and I'm not aware of any stereo rack units at that time either. Also, there's no bass pedals on this album, those are all bass guitars, though I'm not sure which one/s he used.
"Perpetual Change" does have a slightly different sound on the "neck pickup only" sections (more middy/muddy than, say, the similar sections of "Yours Is No Disgrace"); plus you can definitely hear the treble pickup signal being ridden up and down in the mix (possibly to mask the pickup switching). You're right about the middle - but technically everything goes into mono for that "counterpoint" section; most likely there was a lot of track bouncing/comping. (But it does return to the neck pickup-centre, bridge pickup-left stereo picture from 6:24 onwards through the fade - his big lick at 6:48 makes that audible.)
"Starship Trooper" is another animal; at the end, you can distinctly hear the different tracks - fuzzed and tremoloed neck pickup and clean bridge pickup - as they get nudged around in the balance. But for the first portion of the song, it does sound to me like two stereo-split pickups both with tremolo. (Obviously not true stereo tremolo, since you're right - there weren't any back then. I just assumed - again, all this assuming I'm doing - that the amps' trems were set more-or-less the same speed and interacted accordingly.) I'd almost be willing to buy that song on Jammit just to hear the bass "stems" solod in order to get a better idea of what was really going on there.
And yeah, I'm guessing CS didn't pick up that set of Dewtrons until after TYA was recorded, but he definitely has them by Musikladen and they're being fully used on the tours from that time onward ("It's Love" for a great example). I'd wager that the "bass pedals" at the end of the album version of "ST" are just straight Hammond pedals (and may have been one reason why he sought out the Dewtron pedals for live use shortly thereafter - a bit like my personal speculation that Tony Banks' use of his Hammond's pedals on "White Mountain" may have inspired Mike Rutherford to get his somewhat more famous set of Dewtrons).
Considering how much I based my own rig around Chris' early setup when I was a still gigging player, and how much I love the production values of those early albums, all of this info and related speculation is still utterly fascinating to me. Personally, I tried all sorts of things, and in the end found that continuing to split the pickups through separate amps still got me closest to Chris' tone. Doesn't mean that's how he did it (and I have no idea how reliable his memory of those early albums and setups has become over the intervening years), but it worked for me as well as anything ever could (minus the actual skill and talent, of course)....
Last edited by pacealot on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Oh, and I meant to comment earlier on the mention of the Vox head - I too assumed that he might have used it on parts of "Close To The Edge," particularly for the "nasty" fretless tone of (again, presumably) the Guild JS-II. The transitions between that tone and the "normal" Rick are almost seamless (but, luckily for us anoraks, not entirely so)....
fran4001 wrote:Hey Gunner, how IS that ol' V63 doing? Still well I hope!
Hey Fran,
Great to hear from you! She's still doing great thanks to you. I think I'm due for some new strings though. I still have the ones you put on.
This thread has yielded a lot of great and fascinating information, don't you think? All the best to you friend.
Hello again Gunner! Yeah, I love going deep into the nuts and bolts of CS's gear. Very interesting. I guess the Forum is going to be active a while now with Chris' untimely passing. I'm gutted, as you surely are, and all of us..... I've been finding solace here and on Facebook since yesterday.
fran4001 wrote:Hello again Gunner! Yeah, I love going deep into the nuts and bolts of CS's gear. Very interesting. I guess the Forum is going to be active a while now with Chris' untimely passing. I'm gutted, as you surely are, and all of us..... I've been finding solace here and on Facebook since yesterday.
Thanks Fran. I posted on your memorial thread as well.
His passing really hit me hard. I feel like I'm in mourning like I would over a family member. Yeah, "gutted" is the word. I think all of us bass players who were inspired by him feel the same way. I guess because most of the days of my life, since I first started listening to Yes almost 40 years ago, my head has been largely filled with Yes music, Chris' bass lines, Rickenbacker fantasies and what would I say to Chris if I ever met him fantasies! He has been such a big part of my life. I think he has inspired this reaction in many of his fans.
But I too find solace here. His spirit is here for all of us loved and admired him and it's good that we can mourn and remember together.
I am not sure whether I should place a separate thread but this is related and it has so good content...
My question is how could have the Jazz Bass have been wired to stereo. does anyone know how was Chris' wiring?
Especially considering there are still 3 knobs there.... How is the tone knob wired...
I am building a Jazz bass (my first project) and I would like to wire it in stereo.
miguelbass wrote:I am not sure whether I should place a separate thread but this is related and it has so good content...
My question is how could have the Jazz Bass have been wired to stereo. does anyone know how was Chris' wiring?
Especially considering there are still 3 knobs there.... How is the tone knob wired...
I am building a Jazz bass (my first project) and I would like to wire it in stereo.
Thank you all
Miguel
Hello Miguel, I have wondered this myself. My thought is that since he typically left his RM HS tone full up and used the neck pickup tone control, that on the Jazz he would have wired the tone control for the neck pickup and used only the volume control for the bridge pickup. Let us know how this project turns out.
Typical Jazz wiring of Volume Volume Tone cannot be wired in stereo. Once you get to the tone control, you've subbed the two separate pickup channels into a mono output. Now, with three controls, you can have Balance Volume Volume in stereo. I've done this for a customer's 4004. No tone control, but HB1's wide open with no tone isn't a bad thing.
