McGuinn's Metal Fingerpicks

[ken_j]

A friend has recently switched to these Propics and is quite happy with the results:

PK47-M_sm_.jpg (9.14 KiB) Viewed 3344 times

Link: http://elderly.com/accessories/cat_or_p ... verse_str=

[jimk]

So is anyone but me having a devil of a time with Roger's picking style??? I flat-picked my various accoustic 12strings for nearly 40 years, but with my new 370/12 I thought I would at least attempt to learn the style with the flatpick and the two metal fingerpicks... (pictures helped. Thanks to jimk) But after many hours of trying, it isn't coming together for me... Oddly, a thumbpick makes a whole lot of difference, and I am progressing that way, but the idea of constraining the index finger seems completely foreign to my brain and it's driving me nuts.

Am I the only one?

Without question, inhibiting the index finger by grasping a flat pick is quite a challenge. As I've said elsewhere, I spent years playing finger style with thumb and two fingers. I simply had to sit myself down, and slowly, ever so slowly practice a simple picking pattern using the new hybrid picking. For me it was the ring finger that proved difficult to manage at first. It took me a couple of years....seriously! Probably helped preserve what little sanity I had left while waiting for my Rick.

And I have to say, that after becoming comfortable with it now, I can't see any advantage. Because one can play fast single string passages by simply using thumb and index finger, and then switch back to finger picked passages for arpeggios, rolls, etc.

JimK

[bvstudios]

Well, I'll keep bashing away at it for now.... hopefully it'll click in before my wife lowers the boom on me!

Meantime, I can pretty much get the "McGuinn sound" on 8mile, Wild Mountain Thyme & Turn Turn Turn with a thumb and two fingers. But some of the others seem to need more upstrokes than a thumbpick can easily manage... Ah well, I'm up for the challenge. If it works, it'll be worth it!

Thanks!

[janglebox]

For me it was the ring finger that proved difficult to manage at first. It took me a couple of years....seriously! Probably helped preserve what little sanity I had left while waiting for my Rick.

And I have to say, that after becoming comfortable with it now, I can't see any advantage.
JimK

Coordinating the ring finger has been my problem as well. I'm about halfway to making it work, but I only practice it occasionally. What does work for me is a flat pick between thumb and index and a single finger pick on my middle finger only. (A half-hybrid?) I can achieve a fairly decent approximation of Roger's style with that technique, and a not-too-bad forward banjo roll as well.

[jimk]

Don't discount that, Steve. That's the way James Burton plays.

JimK

[mcd220]

Guys, this is a GREAT thread, and thanks for all the good info. I use Roger's '60s technique for playing; flat pick between thumb & forefinger, and fingernails for the second & third fingers. Actually, the string is struck by a caloused finger, immediately followed by the nail.

I get a much louder and "Sharper" tone than you might think; the downside is that the nails have to be manicured constantly...too long, they break, too short, muddy tone. In fact, I keep an emery board in the guitar case at all times just for this purpose.

Tried fingerpicks at various points over the years, and never could get it to happen...probably didn't stuck with it long enough actually. Back in the late 1980s early '90s, I tried those (Dunlop?) plastic "Finger tip" picks...they felt OK, but broke after about 20 minutes of playing!

Started on Banjo about 5 years ago (I'm no Jim Krause though I assure you!), and use the very same technique there as well, and seems to work very well.

Anybody else here use the fingernails???

Best, Christian

[cjj]

Anybody else here use the fingernails???

I do... on bass...

[jimk]

Well Christian, since you brought up the subject of my banjo playing, ...that's where I use finger nails; actually the backside of the fingernail. The technique is called frailing, or claw hammer.

Funny thing is that I never got on to that three-finger Scruggs style the bluegrass pickers use. But I've been a finger picker on guitar all my life. Weird, eh?
JimK

[kiramdear]

Anybody else here use the fingernails???

I've been known to sport a set of acrylic nails for fingerpicking. My natural nails are a bit soft for sustained usage. The fake nails work GREAT.

[bvstudios]

Well, here I am, still flailing away with the fingerpicks on the 2nd and 3rd fingers, and not really getting any better. Progress is still slow, and now I have a problem that I don't see here... namely:

When I use the fingerpicks, it seems that the edge of the pick is the portion that wants to hit the string rather than the face/point as it does with a regular pick. As a result, the sound is muddied out and not near as crisp as it should be.

I tried holding my hand at more of a right-angle to the lie of the strings, but unless I raised the neck up to almost shoulder level, it was not a comfortable place for my right hand to be (Twisting the right wrist 'outward' from centre to keep the angle proper. Next, I tried setting the fingerpicks on an angle on my fingers so that the proper portion of the pick hit the strings, but that caused the picks to pinch the knuckle painfully because I had to tighten them on the finger at about the 4:00 position (viewed from the fingertip).

What do other hybrid pickers do....? maybe some kind of voodoo wrist yoga?

Comments? Hints? Help!

[beatbyrd]

Well, here I am, still flailing away with the fingerpicks on the 2nd and 3rd fingers, and not really getting any better. Progress is still slow, and now I have a problem that I don't see here... namely:

When I use the fingerpicks, it seems that the edge of the pick is the portion that wants to hit the string rather than the face/point as it does with a regular pick. As a result, the sound is muddied out and not near as crisp as it should be.

I tried holding my hand at more of a right-angle to the lie of the strings, but unless I raised the neck up to almost shoulder level, it was not a comfortable place for my right hand to be (Twisting the right wrist 'outward' from centre to keep the angle proper. Next, I tried setting the fingerpicks on an angle on my fingers so that the proper portion of the pick hit the strings, but that caused the picks to pinch the knuckle painfully because I had to tighten them on the finger at about the 4:00 position (viewed from the fingertip).

What do other hybrid pickers do....? maybe some kind of voodoo wrist yoga?

Comments? Hints? Help!

This strikes waaaay close to home for me. I tried the metal picks and kept getting the strings caught between the curve of the picks and my fingertips. They didn't feel anywhere near natural. Someone earlier mentioned that Roger bends the ends of his picks. This makes sense to me and I'm going to try it when I get some time. I plan to bend the tips of the picks so that they more closely match my natural finergertips/nails, leaving just the end of the pick to strike the strings. The curve does not give me the 'feel' that I'm striking the strings accurately. It's like driving a car with really loose steering. So far, I've been using thumb, index, & middle or flatpick, middle, & ring. I may need a lesson from Jim K when he attends SCARF. Tom

[jimk]

Bending the each finger pick just so will help quite a bit. At least it has for me. My finger picks are bent so that they only fit on one designated finger. I can't switch them. The one that goes on the ring finger is way too tight for the middle finger, and the one that goes on the middle finger (Byrd finger? ) would just fall off my ring finger. Anyway, that's how my hand shapes up....literally. I'd be more than happy to sit down with any aspiring 12 string pickers and share any insights I have at SCARF. And I hope I can learn something from you, as well.
JimK

[parker_knoll]

i have tried both plastic and metal fingerpicks and sometimes use one, or the other, or none.

One issue for me is that i like to play surfy styles and need to be able to tremolo pick, so i thumb pick is not an option for me.

After basically trying them all I use Kyser metal fingerpicks and i bend them sideways as well as vertically. E.g. the top of the pick is bent over the top of my finger, but they also do not sit straight on my fingers. Rather i angle them so that the pick always strikes the string straight on. It works well, but can mash up your fingers a bit as the metal is not the most comfortable.

[Budrocket1]

McGuinn's hybrid picking style is based to a good degree on basic Scruggs-style banjo picking. A basic knowledge of Scruggs picking is helpful, though McGuinn was a rudimentary Scruggs picker and as such mostly uses the forward roll (Thumb - Index - Middle), which is probably a bit more indicative of Ralph Stanley's banjo picking style. As a banjo player, it totally makes sense to me. If you like, I will be happy to post some banjo picking patterns that are similar to what McGuinn uses, and you can transfer "Thumb - Index - Middle" to "Pick - Middle - Ring."

As for picks, I never had much use for the plastic/vinyl. The tone is ****, and they don't stay on the fingers very well, especially when the weather is warm and the plastic softens. I have used Alaska picks, the difference being they "attach" under the fingernail, so the picking surface is concave, and only the tip contacts the strings, as opposed to banjo picks, which have a convex surface that contacts with the strings. If you decide to go the plastic route, I'd go with Alaska over plastic banjo type picks.

If you're looking to minimize metal fingerpick noise, avoid Dunlop -- the "blades" are too rounded. I would suggest National NP-2, or Showcase 41's. Both are nickel-silver, are very close to the old style Nationals, and have a slightly flatter blade. I wear them farther back on my fingers and bend the blades very slightly. You have to learn to up-pick quickly; the slower your reaction time is, the more buzz you will get when the blade contacts the string, the faster you up pick the less buzz. Basic banjo technique, essentially.

[RonnyK]

Love this discussion.... I have been a finger-picker for a long time on an acoustic (thumb and finger pads-- no picks) and finally purchased my dream guitar, a fire-glo 360. I am trying in earnest to pick up RM's playing style which not only entails learning to hold the pick and use middle and third fingers for picking, but also getting used to wearing finger picks. My questions, probably pretty basic, are:

1. Can anybody describe in a bit more detail how to best attack the strings with the finger picks? Using my finger pad method on my acoustic, my fingers come under the strings and pluck with the tip of the finger pad. Where does one look to strike the strings with the fingerpicks?

2. Can someone provide a little more detail in terms of bending metal fingerpicks? Is it recommended to bend the tip up a bit over the tip of the finger, twist (cant) it, or both?

Thanks in advance,

Ron