Sound for I wanna hold your hand ?

[wolfgang]

Hi Peter,
you are absolutely right. Glen did a lot of research. His loom is highly recommended and an enrichment for every 325C58

Wolfgang

[FabGearHead]

Wolfgang "With my old "coiled cord" guitar cable ( about 1200 µµF capacitance) I get the right
electric Rickenbacker jangle (volume pot and treble pot fully on, bridge pickup only)."

Wolfgang, You have added ANOTHER aspect of reproducing guitar sounds which I never thought about! It has always been about the guitar, pickups, strings, amp, and playing style.

The older guitar cables must have offered some sort of resistance which colored the sound. Obviously! Thanks for the input...

Jim

[Hotzenplotz]

Just think about of the resistance of an long, old and thin cable! That is a big detail, 100% agree!

Some stores start to talk about this or that sounding cable, one too much IMHO, but surely not completely wrong.
In the old days the shielding was bad - or sometimes not existing. Hum (and the result of avoiding it by cutting it via the guitars and amp's dials!!!) is a part of that sound, too.

Even the electric current was different in the old days, too! - NO JOKE! E.g., in Germany until the 90s the current was 220V. Step by step it raised to 230V. Talking about tubes it makes them hotter working. An old amp has to be biased different than 30 years before.

All in all the sound of the old days stays in the old days and is not reproducible as easy as it seems.

[electrofaro]

Well, if you start with that... mic placement on the amp, the exact amp used, long cables of the mic going to the huge analogue recording equipment of the day, bleeding of signals, the mixing process... the amount of small influences, yet in the end they all build up to that one sound one might want. I stopped looking to emulate someone's sound - if it's good sounding, or even near the original sound by accident it's good enough for me

[wolfgang]

hello,
talking about guitar cables: the main attribute in regard to the guitar's sound is the capacitance of the cable. It is normally in the range of 300pF to about 1000pF and gives you (if too large) some treble roll off you can not achieve or correct with your amp's tone controls so well. For clean, undistorted sounds, especially with humbuckers, lesser capacitance gives you a broader sound.
But, at least to me, about 1000pf give a nice "electric" jangly sound with the well known "7.5kOhm" toaster pickups.

Wolfgang

[iiipopes]

Yes, a cord can make a difference. I have a cheap Sears guitar that was my first guitar and I still get it out occasionally. It has seriously cheap pickups that sound like glass shards through a straight high quality, low capacitance cord. When I got my Vox Pathfinder, I also got an old-fashioned heavy coiled cord that by its nature will have a little bit of inductance as well as a higher capacitance. That and the transistor input circuit tamed the guitar to where it is playable again, and sounds like it did through the inexpensive Sears amp and coiled cord when it was new in 1975: ultimate garage band.

[DavyR]

Not too many years ago I read that Lennon's rhythm guitar on IWTHYH was the J160-E through an amp!

[Zurdo]

who the he** is Glen and why should I worry about it?

[wolfgang]

Glen Lambert, a forumite from down under. He did a lot of research regarding to the original 325/58 wiring. From him you can get a replacement loom
for the 325C58. It gives you all options you need to get the early lennonish sounds. For more details please use the board's search function

Wolfgang

[DavyR]

I'm having a brainfart - I thought he used the Gibson acoustic on that song. I'm getting it mixed up with another song, right?

Same here! I distinctly remember this being discussed years ago that the rhythm guitar on IWTHYH was indeed the J160-E with its PU thru an amp.

[wolfgang]

hello,
good point.
Maybe the Granada "Scene at 6:30" videos can help? This Boy was mimed with two J160-Es and IWTHYH with George on his Gretsch Country Gent and John on his J 160-E.
I have no problem if both J160-E were used (at the recording) for This Boy , George's plugged in and John's not.
Regarding to I want to hold your hand I go for: John on 325-Hamburg, treble pu on, tone pot low,
George on 425 with low impedance toaster (like the 325-Hamburg) and Paul on his new, second Hofner, with the bass lick overdubbed in the Hofner-"treble"-position.
To me, the J160-E with its P90-like pu in neck position sounds too dark with its treble pot down. It's hard to say. My EJ160-E JL has got the "P100-humbucker";
you cannot compare both.
What do you reckon?


btw: neck pu P90, treblepot down, Casino: this is Michele's solo, played by Paul, isn't it?

Wolfgang

[iiipopes]

hello,
good point.
Maybe the Granada "Scene at 6:30" videos can help? This Boy was mimed with two J160-Es and IWTHYH with George on his Gretsch Country Gent and John on his J 160-E.
I have no problem if both J160-E were used (at the recording) for This Boy , George's plugged in and John's not.
Regarding to I want to hold your hand I go for: John on 325-Hamburg, treble pu on, tone pot low,
George on 425 with low impedance toaster (like the 325-Hamburg) and Paul on his new, second Hofner, with the bass lick overdubbed in the Hofner-"treble"-position.
To me, the J160-E with its P90-like pu in neck position sounds too dark with its treble pot down. It's hard to say. My EJ160-E JL has got the "P100-humbucker";
you cannot compare both.
What do you reckon?


btw: neck pu P90, treblepot down, Casino: this is Michele's solo, played by Paul, isn't it?

Wolfgang

Remember at one point one or both of the "original" 160E's had their pickups moved from the front of the sound hole to the rear of the sound hole, or even possibly other positions.

[wolfgang]

It'a a never ending story, isn't it? Please let me know, when we or someone came to that conclusion, that Lennon used the J160-E? When I am searching for "the sound of the rhythm guitar of IWTHYH", I find only my own old posts from 2004, where I told this same old story: 325-Hamburg. Exactly the same story.
Any suggestions?

Wolfgang

[admin]

My memory is that we discussed the 160E was used by Lennon in I Feel Fine. I don't remember a discussion with regard to I Want To Hold Your Hand.

Peter

[DavyR]

It'a a never ending story, isn't it? Please let me know, when we or someone came to that conclusion, that Lennon used the J160-E? When I am searching for "the sound of the rhythm guitar of IWTHYH", I find only my own old posts from 2004, where I told this same old story: 325-Hamburg. Exactly the same story.
Any suggestions?
Wolfgang

Hey there, Wolfgang! Long time since we talked!

It wasn't on this forum from what I remember. It may have been beatgearcavern.com. I need to SEARCH for it myself. But, two of us here remember reading that it was the J160-E, so there might be something to it. And, since it was early on, the P-90 pickup would most likely NOT have been moved yet until after IWTHYH was recorded.