Toaster timeline?

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:41 am

My '91 360V64-12 & my '92 1997 have toasters that are as powerful as high gains, but any gtr from '97 on that I have had with toasters are much weaker. I took delivery of my Carl Wilson 12 string with the 7.4 scatterwounds & was wondering if any one knew the difference between 'scatterwound' & re-issue toasters & any timeline for the different outputs.

I assume that somewhere between '92 & '97, there was a change in output towards the weaker side & then the scatterwounds appeared? What does scatterwound mean? Do Ric offer scatterwound & re-issue toasters at the moment, or is only one type offered?

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:01 am

Too deep and techo for me, Tony. Now if you wanted info on 'scatterbrains', I'm your man!!

However, I'd also be interested to know the exact meaning of 'scatterwound'. I need something to talk about at the pub tonight that'll have the others completely baffled!!

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:12 am

The "scatterwound" nomenclature refers to the fact that the original toasters were wound on a machine where the wire was guided by hand. So often the wire did not get wound around the bobbin in a linear fashion, but in a somewhat more inconsistent pattern. Think of a machine wound spool of thread as opposed to one where you unwound it and then tried to wind the thread back on the spool by hand. You could not ever be as precise.

Prior to 1999, the pickups were machine-wound in a more precise fashion.

In the '80s the early toaster-top reissues were similiar to '60s spec- 8K Ohm resistance or so. About 1989, they began to be wound hotter- anywhere from 11k to 14k.

Many people began to hear the difference and a little cult sprang up where people "unwound" their toaster-top reissues- removing several thousand windings to lower the resistance and inductance of the pickup and get that clearer, brighter, but weaker, '60s sound.

In response to this, Rickenbacker began to offer the "scatterwound" toaster-top in 1999. If memory serves, the 325/12v63, 450v63, and 425v63 were the first production guitars to feature these pickups.

Since then, Rickenbacker has phased out the hotter reissue and makes only the scatterwound.

The easiest viusal way to tell a factory scatterwound from the previous reissue is the pickup corner screws. The scatterwound will have smaller, plated, slot-head screws.

Other notes:

The 325c58 has even "colder" pickups. I believe the factory wound these pickups to ~5k. They also have special, '58 accurate back covers.

When the C series was introduced, Rickenbacker modified their mold for the toaster bobbins to include the "mold marks" that were original to the pre-1964 toaster-tops. These are 4 shallow circles at the corners of the raised areas.

Rickenbacker really deserves kudos for these nods to detail. They could not have been cheap to implement and 99.9 5 of the public did not notice the difference. Thanks RIC.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:43 am

Now that is interesting. Thanks, Bob! Sorry, Tony - didn't mean to steal your thread.

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:55 am

"99.9 5 of the public did not notice the difference"

But we all do!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:21 pm

Thanks Bob. Are you saying that the hot p/ups were going untill '99. If that is the case, then my old '97 360V64, which had weak p/ups, could have been retro fitted with scatterwounds, or was there an 'in between' version?

I don't care much for these weak pickups, but only because I play with overdrive, which doesn't seem to suit them as well as the hotter ones. I like my Carl Wilson 12, but the p/ups have GOT to go! They will be swapped for the hotter toasters ASAP.

Howard, no need for apology, your input is always welcome.

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:11 am

Yes, the hotter pickups went until roughly '99. Yours could have been swapped or even unwound. What kind of corner screws do they have?

Also, I read something to indicate that the 325C58 pickups were actually wound to 3.5k.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:58 am

I'm with Tony. I thought the toasters on my 360V64 had the perfect sound. I wouldn't mind trying them on my 650C if I could find a pair. Or even just one in the neck position.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:11 am

I'm not to up on the technical side Ken, but I believe that a pair of new scatterwounds could be rewound to the specs of the older hotter toasters. Is this the case Bob? Could I measure my '92 toasters & have them wound to the same specs.....would they then sound the same?

I sold my '97 360V64 to a collector friend of mine. Next time I'm there, I will take note of the corner screws.

patrickkelly · Post by **patrickkelly** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:52 am

Yes, as Bob said, there was a "cottage industry" that sprung up in the mid/late-90's for unwinding the hotter toasters. A guy named Ted Breaux in New Orleans (where is ol' Ted, anyway?) was the first to advertise his services.

patrickkelly · Post by **patrickkelly** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:54 am

I should have added: It's not difficult, only requires a little care, a soldering iron and electrical tape.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:59 am

I'm talking about ADDING windings Patrick, not unwinding. I want my scatterwounds to be the same as my hot toasters!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:23 am

I wonder if the magnets are the same. Maybe Sérgio will chime in here.

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:21 am

I believe the magnets are exactly the same.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:05 pm

Hey Tony, how's about a trade? I've got a '91 381 with very HOT toasters in it. I'll trade ya' my two for your two.

Cole