The Iron Door Club

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:26 am

One of the first large music venues was surely the Iron Door Club at 13 Temple Street in Liverpool. I am interested in comments and/or photos from persons who were there during the early to mid 1960s. A short history of the club can be found here.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 7:39 am

There are updates to the Iron Door article posted on The Liverpool Project today.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:44 am

There are comments from visitors to the old Iron Door added to the Iron Door Article today on The Liverpool Project. Visitors' Update Only Complete Article The Liverpool Project

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:54 am

New updates to the Iron Door article today. Faron's Flamingos are now online. As always, your comments, corrections and additions are welcomed.

Faron's Flamingos Update Only Complete Article The Liverpool Project

miguel · Post by **miguel** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:39 am

I had the pleasure to interview John Mc.Nally in 2001 / 2002 and I asked him about the 'Iron Door'. He told me that basically it was the same as 'The Cavern': a cellar, with poor ventilation, very wet and dirty, just around the corner of Mathew Street. It was probably built in the late XVII or early XIX, just like 'The Cavern'. John told me that the audiences were different from one club to the other: more students, white collars and arty people at 'The Cavern', and more working class young boys and girls in the 'Iron Door'. In 1964, the cellar was rebuilt into a much luxurious club, still named 'The Iron Door'.

miguel · Post by **miguel** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:50 pm

Oh, sorry, I meant "late XVIII, early XIX".

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:53 pm

Albie: Are you able to comment on the Iron Door Club? I would be interested in your impressions, assuming that you were able to visit it in the early 1960s. I have always been surprised that many folks who spent time at the Cavern didn't travel the short distance to the Iron Door.

miguel · Post by **miguel** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:44 am

Just to keep the discussion going while we wait for Albie to comment on this, I think that 'The Cavern' and 'The Iron Door Club' had two different kind of audiences. If you went to 'The Cavern' you didn´t visit 'The Iron' and viceversa. The reasons why this happened could be at least two: One is 'The Beatles versus The Searchers' rivalry, which was at its peak in 1963. The other reason could be the age and the social class. Kids who went to 'The Cavern' were mostly students and white collar workers. On the other side, the audience of the 'Iron' was slighty older and from the working class. I wouldn´t say that all the people going at 'The Cavern' belonged to the middle-class and all the people going at 'The Iron Door' were from the working class, surely it wasn´t so segregated, but there was a tendency.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:53 am

Miguel: There were many differences between these venues that would have resulted in a slightly different audiences. The Iron Door was a larger venue and as such allowed for a larger audience. While there were certaily cues at the Iron Door, it appealed to those who didn't wish to "camp out" waiting for their favourite group. As you say, perhaps a slightly older group who didn't have the time to wait for extended periods.

Both the Iron Door and the Cavern had numerous groups playing there, but in the balance I agree that if you wanted to see the Beatles it was the Cavern and the Searchers played more often at the Iron Door.

From my reading, it would seem that the security was greater at the Iron Door and as such those under age of with a "rough edge" may have been scrutinized more at the Iron Door than at the Cavern.

I hope that the folks from Liverpool will comment on these factors.

miguel · Post by **miguel** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:08 am

Very interesting, Peter. Yes, I do think that people saw 'The Cavern' as 'The Beatles´club' and 'The Iron Door' as 'The Searchers´club'. What I didn´t know is that the 'Iron Door' was larger than 'The Cavern'. I thought that both were almost identical cellars.
Well, let´s see if the Liverpool guys come back with more information.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:31 am

Miguel: I don't want to mislead. The Iron Door had upper floors that allowed for more patrons than the Cavern. On some all night occasions they had close to 2000 patrons.

albie · Post by **albie** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:52 pm

You'll gather from what I said previously about how I discovered The Beatles from overhearing older gang members enthusing about their debut record that I was 5 years or so too young to have been a part of the original scene.

Our first sorties to the Cavern weren't until 1967 and by then Merseybeat had all but disappeared in its original incarnation. Still a fantastic place to go however with a disco at ground floor and live groups downstairs in the cellars.

As regards The Iron Door I'm not sure but I think that it may have become The Temple by the time we started clubbing and we preferred The Cavern, The Beachcomber [Mirabel], the Victoriana and The Grafton ballroom.

From what I've picked up over the years I seem to recall being told the Cavern back in the early sixties was for the more arty types from the South end suburbs whilst the Iron Door was more popular with the North end/Bootle lot and perhaps the South end Dingle/Toccy lot.

Probably far too simplistic a definition as is invariably the case with such snippets of hearsay but as it happens in very broad terms there probably is a distinction in Liverpool between the north end a lot of which is very docklandish and industrialised with vast tracts of terraced property and the South end suburbs which have a far wealthier and more prosperous feel.

Stretching this a bit I daresay you might even say that the north enders tend to produce a more rough and ready down to earth type of Scouser with no pretensions of grandeur. The south enders on the other hand can sometimes be a bit up their own backsides. He says like a true Bootleonian
:-0)

The Searchers were northenders. The Beatles were south enders.

Draw your own conclusions.

Were John and Paul a tad pretentious?

Were George and Ringo?

Pete Best incidentally was from in between - West Derby [the original debtor's retreat].

Were Mike Pender and John McNally rough and ready?

Were Chris Crummy and Tony Jackson?

Is the Pope catholic?

:-0)

miguel · Post by **miguel** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:20 pm

Peter: Thank you! I didn´t know that the 'Iron Door' had upper floors! 2000 patrons are indeed a great crowd.

Adan: Thank you, too! Your post are great, tons of first hand information! (By the way: the Pope is catholic, oh yes!

)