Another Toaster v Hi-Gain thread

[seoigh]

Challenge:

Convince me I'd prefer new scatterwound toasters in my new 360/12.

Here's the caveat:

Do not use the following words:

Byrds
60s
Beatles

Put another way -- I replaced the standard Filter'Trons on my 6120 with TV Jones Filter'Trons. I was not looking for a more "50s" sound -- I just felt that the ceramic magnet, high-output pickups sounded kind of muddy on some amps. I just think the TV Jones pickups sound better. Do they sound more "vintage"? I honestly could not care less.

So without getting all misty about 60s nostalgia, can someone who has performed a Hi-Gain to Toaster swap please describe the tonal differences between the pickups?

Thanks.

[wayang]

Define 'Misty' for me...

[jingle_jangle]

Or better yet, play it...

High Gains=balls. Stallion, raging bull, **** o' the walk.

Toasters=B***s, B*****s, **s. Sort of like the capon of pickups. Castrated, but great flavor.

[seoigh]

I think I'm staying where I am with my current 360/12 -- I told someone recently (and honestly) that in my ears, Peter Buck's mid 80s tone absoluteley demolished anything McGuinn or Harrison ever used. My ears, of course, aren't anyone else's. So why yank out my Hi-Gains, right?

That said, I've got a project 6 string git that I'm going to be attacking this winter and I'm torn as to whether to try out the new scatter-toasts on it. Variety is the spice, after all.

I'd love to see a frequency breakdown on both -- I mean, from what I've gleaned from conversations with people who make and sell pickups, there's less to timbre in a pickup than most people will tell you on an internet board. Variations in number of windings and wire diameter do little more than make a pickup brighter or darker, from what I've been told -- and the actual construction of the guitar makes a WAY bigger difference in terms of the voice of the instrument. Rick pickups on a Strat won't sound like a Rick, you know?

The output level of course impacts tone because of it's influence on an amp. And higher magnetism will allow less natural string vibration. And many windings will kill off some top-end frequencies. But all of those things don't make for the kind of tonal difference between an SG and 330.

I'm imagining the scatter-toasts are lower in magnetism, allowing for a slightly more natural acoustic-type sound (though I have to think that pure nickel strings so popular in the vintage crowd counter-act that to a degree). I also imagine that the scatter-toasts are a tad brighter overall with less bottom. I can't imagine too many other differences between them and the Hi-Gains if mounted to the same guitar.

Anyhow -- anyone's shared experience would be appreciated.

[admin]

Bradley: Based on your comments, I would not remove the high gains on your 360/12.

It might be of interest to you, though, that all toasters are not created equal. You might enjoy the hotter toasters that are in the 11 to 12 K range over the scatter-wounds at 7.4K.

The high gains blow the doors off the scatter-wounds but the the latter have a higher jangle factor. There are trade offs no matter what pickup you choose.

The good news is that you won't lose on the toasters should you get them, because what you don't like you can always swap or sell here.

The hotter toasters are harder to find but from what you have said here, I think that you might enjoy them.

[brammy]

I think the answer is to have multiple Rics with a variety of pickup configurations.

Thats why I'm still snooping around for a Jetglo 360 CW to satisfy my toaster curiosity.

[seoigh]

Actually, I have a 325v59 with the high output pre scatter toasters. I also used to have a early 90s (late 80s?) 381v69 with the same p'ups -- and I thought that git sounded AWESOME.

Dave Gregory's (XTC) description of the 325 tone as a nearly useless "twank" is pretty spot on in my book, sad to say. (He uses it in the intro to Vanishing Girl on the Dukes album -- but I think it actually sounds pretty good there).

I love the looks and history of the little 325, but I've never been able to find much of a home for it in my tonal arsenal. It does make for a very funny, angry rhythm guitar going through an overdriven tweed Bronco, though.

Here's a better question -- when did RIC start making slightly different Hi-Gains? My 80s Ricks had Hi-Gains that were flat on top (excepting the pole pieces). Somewhere in the early 90s or so, they started having the two finger shaped raised bumps parellel to the pole pieces -- almost like a toaster. What's the deal with that?

Kent-
You're totally right. And I do! Good luck on a 360 JG CW. Never seen one.

[schoolside]

I have a new set of toasters but can’t find a good reason to replace the (new style) hi-gains in my 360/12. I think it sounds pretty fabulous just the way it is.

[chefothefuture]

The high gains started to have the bumps as early as 86 or 87.
Richard Smith described them as the Hybrid type in his book.
Rick just used the same bobbin for the toaster or the high gain.
I suspect that until the advent of the "scatterwound" ones, the coils
were even wound the same. They just put different magnets on one or the other.

[collin]

I don't know why they can't just make a Hi-Gain that LOOKS like the toasters..?

I like the way Hi Gains sound, but my fav. Ric (1999 360 v64) has really hot toasters.. I don't know if that's one of the "special" years for toasters...but it sounds amazing..

Cheers,
-Collin

[paologregorio]

Sound? Who cares about sound?! The toasters LOOK much cooler!

Seriously though, I like the sound of both pickups, but all my Ricks have Toasters. I was never fond of the button top feature of the gain pickup, so I've always had toasters for my Ricks. I haven't had the opportunity to use the Scatterwound type toasters yet, but I've used both the 12k version, as well as a custom wound 14K version. I like both of those quite well, and nothing I play sounds like the Beatles or Byrds. I have a pair of 7.4 K toasters being installed on a guitar that Dale is refinishing for me, so I'll have to get back to you on those, but if I don't end up liking the 7.4 K in the bridge position, I have the option of dropping in either a 12 K or a 15 K toaster(cool, eh?). The 14 K has more mids than the 12 K, which in turn, likely has more mids than the 7.4 K, but I might end up liking the 7.4 K as well-it might be extreme enough for my tastes. I don't plan on sounding like the Beatles or Byrds with that guitar either

If you want the toaster look, but want to keep your hi gain sound, just buy two toaster covers and do the cosmetic conversion!

[mike_d]

I swapped out a set of high gains for toasters into a 330/12 this past Sunday. The high gains sounded good, but the toaster simply sparkle. They are not as hot, obviously but they seem to have a more open and airy feel, especially the bridge pickup. My very first Ric was a 320 with hi gains. It always sounded too muddy to me if I engaged middle or neck pickup. I was always a little disappointed that I could not make it sound like those early Fab records.

If you play with a lot of distortion high gains are a great weapon. A Ric 12 is all about jangle to me, so the scatterwound toasters are what suits me best. The toasters also look wicked cool.

[rickenmetal]

So then the 12K toasters don't have much jangle?

[soundmasterg]

The 12k toasters have more jangle than the high gains, but not as much as the 7.4k toasters. I like them in the bridge position on the 21 fret RICS because they match up with the neck pickup better. On the 24 fret RICS the 7.4k toaster is ok in the bridge and matches up well with the neck pickup volume-wise. The 12k toasters have enough jamgle for me, and have more grunt and less of the spiky and peaky highs. I like them a lot myself....

Greg

[rickenmetal]

I would imagine them to not be quite as loud as the Hi-gains simply because they don't have the screws which reach as close to the pickups. All the E strings should also be a little louder than the D and G, especially in the bridge position, so I guess all these factors would amount to slightly more jangle, I think.