1968 375 autumnglow?
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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macmusic9
1968 375 autumnglow?
A few years ago, I traded a set of yamaha recording custom drums for a couple of guitars. One of these guitars was a rickenbacker which I was told was a 1968 375 in the autumnglow finish.I was told that this was extremely rare and that only three of these were produced in the autumnglow finish that year in the 375 model. I have checked the rick site and looked at the 1968 brochure and did not see this finish listed. I was just wondering if this is as rare as I was told and if so, what would this guitar be worth? The serial number begins with HH and I saw in the Gruhn book that was about right for the year so I went with the trade. Any info you could give me would be much appreciated.
in August of 1968 autumnglo was a standard color.
As to how rare is it I will say this.
At the kilson Drive factory we used one gallon floor pots to put our clors and clears in to paint/spray the instruments.
There is a minimum of paint that needs to be mixed just to get the system to work.There is no way that we would just spray 3 guitars in one color.It would be a total waste of material.
The colors would be done in batches of at least 5 at a minimum.Usually it was 10 ,but ...the depended on what the production level was at .
In 1973 we were making about 30 to 45 per day(of all models total).This went up to 90 per day in 1975/76 as this was when we had a swing shift.
You gotta thank chris Squire for that one.
Just because this finish is not listed does not mean a thing .This color was around even when I started in July of 1972.The issue of the color and what it looks like are the most confusing of all the colors ever produced at Rickenbacker.
I will assume that yours is a blotchy looking orangey/brown burst .
Not the walnut burst of the 1970's.
Autumn glo was primarily an early 1960's color ,at least that is what I have noticed.BUT...
again the spray equipment would not produce for 3 at one time .
As to what is rare ...I don't have production totals ,nor do I care about them.
You can take this up with the factory.
You must also understand that ALL guitar companies are not too concerned with what was done 30 years ago...it just doesn't make any money or sense to do so.To pay someone to go looking for production totals that long ago before computer data input is not cost effective.
And the amount of peoples that want this knowledge are so few ,and also think it should be free ,so why spend the time to do it.
Next comes the question of why is it so rare?
As to how rare is it I will say this.
At the kilson Drive factory we used one gallon floor pots to put our clors and clears in to paint/spray the instruments.
There is a minimum of paint that needs to be mixed just to get the system to work.There is no way that we would just spray 3 guitars in one color.It would be a total waste of material.
The colors would be done in batches of at least 5 at a minimum.Usually it was 10 ,but ...the depended on what the production level was at .
In 1973 we were making about 30 to 45 per day(of all models total).This went up to 90 per day in 1975/76 as this was when we had a swing shift.
You gotta thank chris Squire for that one.
Just because this finish is not listed does not mean a thing .This color was around even when I started in July of 1972.The issue of the color and what it looks like are the most confusing of all the colors ever produced at Rickenbacker.
I will assume that yours is a blotchy looking orangey/brown burst .
Not the walnut burst of the 1970's.
Autumn glo was primarily an early 1960's color ,at least that is what I have noticed.BUT...
again the spray equipment would not produce for 3 at one time .
As to what is rare ...I don't have production totals ,nor do I care about them.
You can take this up with the factory.
You must also understand that ALL guitar companies are not too concerned with what was done 30 years ago...it just doesn't make any money or sense to do so.To pay someone to go looking for production totals that long ago before computer data input is not cost effective.
And the amount of peoples that want this knowledge are so few ,and also think it should be free ,so why spend the time to do it.
Next comes the question of why is it so rare?
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Most interesting information Mark. Your comments seem to be addressed to the early 1970s and so I am wondering if that was the same finishing process that was used in the 1960s. Thanks macmusic9 for being one of the few who are interested in the history of your guitar. It is really a wonder where all the Autumnglo guitars from the 1960s went especially if it was a standard color. Perhaps the folks that have them are out of the computer loop, however, I hope they will respond to your comments here.
The very limited data collected by the Rickenbacker Registration Page reveals perhaps only a bakers' dozen instruments registered in Autumnglo with half being in the 1970s and a few from 1958 and 1960 and a couple in the 1980s. In the relative sense this is presently statistically rare but perhaps will become more common as the database builds. As always, the database of less than 2000 guitars may not be representative of what really happened at RIC until it increases in size. It has already, however, portrayed a picture of some of "going's on' at RIC in years gone by. We are lucky to have input from folks who worked at the factory.
To respond to macmusic9, I would say that many people would find the autumnglo rather unique. Of the handful of 375's currently registered from the 1950's and 1960's, none are autumnglo. So for goodness sake Register Yours so the next inquisitive soul can have a more complete answer than you have received thus far. In the balance, I will go out on the limb and say that you will spend quite a while before you will find many 1968 Model 375's in Autumnglo. I am sure they are out there, but where and in what number remains to be seen.
The very limited data collected by the Rickenbacker Registration Page reveals perhaps only a bakers' dozen instruments registered in Autumnglo with half being in the 1970s and a few from 1958 and 1960 and a couple in the 1980s. In the relative sense this is presently statistically rare but perhaps will become more common as the database builds. As always, the database of less than 2000 guitars may not be representative of what really happened at RIC until it increases in size. It has already, however, portrayed a picture of some of "going's on' at RIC in years gone by. We are lucky to have input from folks who worked at the factory.
To respond to macmusic9, I would say that many people would find the autumnglo rather unique. Of the handful of 375's currently registered from the 1950's and 1960's, none are autumnglo. So for goodness sake Register Yours so the next inquisitive soul can have a more complete answer than you have received thus far. In the balance, I will go out on the limb and say that you will spend quite a while before you will find many 1968 Model 375's in Autumnglo. I am sure they are out there, but where and in what number remains to be seen.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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macmusic9
Mark, Thanks for your insite in this matter. I was just curious about this after surfing around and finding this site. You guys really seem to know your stuff! I haven't yet checked with Rickenbacker about this, but plan on doing so. Also, since I live in Nashville, I was planning on taking it down to Gruhn to see what they might have to say. As far as what the color looks like, you are correct that it is an orangey/brown burst. The full serial number is HH 1308, if that would be any more info for you or anyone else to go on. The reason I called it rare is because that is what the dealer I traded with called it. He is a reputable dealer that mostly deals with older guitars and drums (although I know that some people will say anything to make a deal). His story was that it was only one of three in that model that was produced at that time, and that was the story that was given to him when he acquired it at a trade show and the story seemed to check out with him later (although he didn't give specifics). Is there a chance, that at the factory, they could have done that and used the rest of the paint on other models or did I get yanked like like a largemouth bass in a stocked pond? I have seen other 370's and 375's of this era fetching $2000 to $5000 on ebay over the past couple of years, so I can't feel too bad about the choice in doing this trade. And besides that, it is one the best playing and sounding guitars I have had the pleasure of getting to play. Other players have said the same, and you know that session players can be extremely picky about playability and tone! (I've been an engineer at a couple studios). The only way I'd get rid of this baby is if some serious vintage recording equipment was being offered! But enough about that, I just wanted to reply back with all the info I have on this guitar and thank you for responding. This site seems like one of the best places to get knowledgeable info on this subject, and gets a definate bookmark in my future surfing! Also, if anyone else has any additional info it would be greatly appreciated! Peace, Love, and RICKENBACKERS!
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macmusic9
Thanks Peter for also responding! I didn't get to read your comments until after I had responded to Mark. Your comments are making me feel better already! I am going to register immediately and when I get anymore info, you guys will be the first to know! Once again, anyone with info on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Peace, Love, and RICKENBACKERS!
The model of the guitar was not designated until it hit the assemble bench.It was not a 375 until the moment that Bill Meyers came out of the office and said"We have an order for an autumn glo 375...put one together."
It could have been something else .
If you take out the middle pickup ,is there paint in the pickup hole under it or is the wood bare?Meaning was the hole drilled out after the finish had been put on or before?
That will tell you a lot about what model designation there was at the time and whether or not it was a preconceived model.
according to the R.Smith book,there are only 3 guitars of this model made that year,yet there are plenty of other Autumn glo guitars.
Als oof note is the amount of instruments that they were making per year at that time.
Plus how many people were there in the world.We now have as many people living as there have ever been before ,in time,before the turn of the century.
So the amount of guitars need to fill orders were not the vast amount that it has become.
Will the 45 guitars made today at the Rickenbacker plant be all rare in 50 years?
It could have been something else .
If you take out the middle pickup ,is there paint in the pickup hole under it or is the wood bare?Meaning was the hole drilled out after the finish had been put on or before?
That will tell you a lot about what model designation there was at the time and whether or not it was a preconceived model.
according to the R.Smith book,there are only 3 guitars of this model made that year,yet there are plenty of other Autumn glo guitars.
Als oof note is the amount of instruments that they were making per year at that time.
Plus how many people were there in the world.We now have as many people living as there have ever been before ,in time,before the turn of the century.
So the amount of guitars need to fill orders were not the vast amount that it has become.
Will the 45 guitars made today at the Rickenbacker plant be all rare in 50 years?
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Good points Mark. It is too bad that we don't have better records, but then again what would musicologists have to do with their time. The Richard Smith data is of interest but it is certainly acknowledged by RIC that the information that he examined was anything but the whole story. Up until recently, however, it was really the only published story. The insights of the factory continue to be an important context in which to discuss the growing online database of Rickenbacker instruments.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
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macmusic9
First of all, thanks alot for both of your comments! After reading the new input, I pulled the pickups out and checked out what you said. The neck pickup has a small hole straight into the guitar. Even though I didn't see much if any paint down in the hole, around the hole's inside, it has the finish around it. The middle pickup has another small hole, but it is slanted at like a thirty degree angle going into the guitar. This definately looks like it was done after the finish was applied. The bridge pickup was cut in a fashion almost all the way of the length of the pickup with the bottom of the pickup having small "poles" coming out of it and into the guitar. The finish doesn't look to be inside the guitar either or around the inside of the cutout. Since I don't know much about the "toaster" pickups, is this normal for the bridge position pickup to have these "poles" and the other positions to be flat on the bottom? Also, is this the way the cutouts should be since all three are different in the way they were done? All of the pickups look to be the same age-wise; the chrome and the black of the "toaster-like" top, the screws, and the black bumpers to protect the finish. I didn't want to pull them out all the way to see if there were any markings on the bottom of the pickups for fear I might pull apart a solder point, so I only lifted them about an inch and a quarter just to check the holes and how the finish was underneath and around them with a flashlight. Once again, I really appreciate how you have helped me in this matter! Also, I registered my other Rick, a 1992 360-12 string JG ( a guitar that I had drooled over since I saw it in the music store and was surprised with for Christmas that year. My first real guitar all my own! Hey, some dreams do come true!)
The guitar sound definately stock.
The polepieces on toasters varies ,I have never assessed the idea of different eras having short VS long magnets ,as I have seen both at the same time.
Originally I believe ,all of them were long magnets.After a period of time ,and this is pure speculation...The neck pickup magnets were shortened to give added stength to the neck joint.This is not just for the 360 semi-hollow bodies ,but for all models.
The middle pickup was added to your guitar after the paint job and at the part installation bench.
Again...this is when the model designation really occured.
The model numbers in the bodies have nothing to do with the final actual model as that (the inked body number)was purely a body style not model.
and it was for tracking the units (not models)thru the manufacturing process.
It is typical to see the two screw mounting holes on the neck pickup,with a 3/8"hole drilled not all the way thru the top,and then an angle hole for the pickup lead .
The bridge pickup hole could be done one of a couple of ways.
1-using the same 'Irwin' speed bore that "routed" the channel for the bass neck pickup ,mounted in a hand drill,the bridge pickup cavity was bored out .This could also be done on a drill press ,but I saw this done both ways...depending on who was doing what in the wood shop.
Also the pin router ,later on ,was used to notch this hole.
But the speed bore bit was classic 'route' for almost 25 years.
Magnets on the bridge pickup are almost always long.But due to shortages per day ,it might get assembled with shorts in all the possitions as well as longs in all ,or a mix of 2 longs and one short.There was NO absolute rule to this and there was no pickup police to tell you other wise.
Again ,and I loved the good natured humor of this sign...there was in the assembly area a sign that was tattered and yellowed that read.....
"When in doubt,send it out"
This did not mean that we made an inferior product,rather it gave us some variables that no one would quibble over.
I'm sure that this could be denied by certain people ,but then again I saw it for 4 years and I know that there were other who did too and they either don't have a computer,don't care to get involved in this group,have long since gotten out of the guitar business or plain just don't care.
If any of you know the where abouts of these people ,see if you can get them in on these chats;
Bryan Cery,
Tom Bland,
Gary Manning,
Bob Rader
Russ Chapman,
Greg Renois
Terry Deason,
Forrest Pierson
Joey Montoya
Richard Valesquez
Joel Heline
Jim Rutledge
Paul Blier
Thats a good start
The polepieces on toasters varies ,I have never assessed the idea of different eras having short VS long magnets ,as I have seen both at the same time.
Originally I believe ,all of them were long magnets.After a period of time ,and this is pure speculation...The neck pickup magnets were shortened to give added stength to the neck joint.This is not just for the 360 semi-hollow bodies ,but for all models.
The middle pickup was added to your guitar after the paint job and at the part installation bench.
Again...this is when the model designation really occured.
The model numbers in the bodies have nothing to do with the final actual model as that (the inked body number)was purely a body style not model.
and it was for tracking the units (not models)thru the manufacturing process.
It is typical to see the two screw mounting holes on the neck pickup,with a 3/8"hole drilled not all the way thru the top,and then an angle hole for the pickup lead .
The bridge pickup hole could be done one of a couple of ways.
1-using the same 'Irwin' speed bore that "routed" the channel for the bass neck pickup ,mounted in a hand drill,the bridge pickup cavity was bored out .This could also be done on a drill press ,but I saw this done both ways...depending on who was doing what in the wood shop.
Also the pin router ,later on ,was used to notch this hole.
But the speed bore bit was classic 'route' for almost 25 years.
Magnets on the bridge pickup are almost always long.But due to shortages per day ,it might get assembled with shorts in all the possitions as well as longs in all ,or a mix of 2 longs and one short.There was NO absolute rule to this and there was no pickup police to tell you other wise.
Again ,and I loved the good natured humor of this sign...there was in the assembly area a sign that was tattered and yellowed that read.....
"When in doubt,send it out"
This did not mean that we made an inferior product,rather it gave us some variables that no one would quibble over.
I'm sure that this could be denied by certain people ,but then again I saw it for 4 years and I know that there were other who did too and they either don't have a computer,don't care to get involved in this group,have long since gotten out of the guitar business or plain just don't care.
If any of you know the where abouts of these people ,see if you can get them in on these chats;
Bryan Cery,
Tom Bland,
Gary Manning,
Bob Rader
Russ Chapman,
Greg Renois
Terry Deason,
Forrest Pierson
Joey Montoya
Richard Valesquez
Joel Heline
Jim Rutledge
Paul Blier
Thats a good start
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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macmusic9
Hey guys, I just wanted to thank you again for all of your input in this matter. It has really helped me out. You guys are the best! Keep up the great work! And if you have anything to add, like what this guitar might be worth, I would appreciate it! Also, after checking out just about every inch of this site, I must say this is one of the coolest on the web! Very informative! I especially got a good laugh from the posts on the Byrds discussion! I have sent emails to all my friends, musicians and non-musicians, to check this place out! Peace, Love, and RICKENBACKERS!!!!
WEll since I have no longer an access to the ALT guitars group Rickenbacker (Deja.com is dumping that and no one has figured out what a 480 logon error is for me ,this is my vent for information )I must answer these questions somewhere and here and at http://www.voxtalks.com are my answering posts.
Spread the word
Spread the word
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!