Just bought a new 360 mapleglow after 20 years of lusting. I have a a fender battery operated tuner, and when tuning up, open strings are of course in perfect pitch, but on 12th fret, if you play the note, the pitch is one dot on the tuner display, flat on E,A,D and one spot sharp on G,B,E (The tuner display has 5 spots either side of the note to display b or #) This gives a slightly off sound when playing barr chords etc. How is this adjusted, I presume on the bridge.
Thanks
Rick 360, slight flatening of notes down neck.
Moderator: jingle_jangle
First you need to go to my postings here at this 'Ask a Luthier site'
first- truss rods and how not to adjust them
second-tips for intonating a Rick
third- intonating and string gauges
read these first and after that ask me what it is that you would like to know .
These may answer your question ,may bring up some more questions ,may not even come close to the answer ...but these will surely do something .
And yes I'm sorry...I know 'Stop calling you Shirley'
first- truss rods and how not to adjust them
second-tips for intonating a Rick
third- intonating and string gauges
read these first and after that ask me what it is that you would like to know .
These may answer your question ,may bring up some more questions ,may not even come close to the answer ...but these will surely do something .
And yes I'm sorry...I know 'Stop calling you Shirley'
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
-
Paul@Liverpool
Paul: Please email me directly and I will see what I can do about a contact for you in the Liverpool area.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Paul: Mark will cringe when he reads this, but I would suggest you try the following while we are finding you a guitar technician in Liverpool. This approach assumes a straight neck which may not be the case and hence all of Mark's steps are sound advice. Here is the OVERSIMPLIFIED version.
1. Tune all open strings to concert pitch using an electronic tuner.
2. Check the pitch of each string by playing the note at the 12th fret and observing whether your tuner indicates the note is FLAT or SHARP. Needle or LED position to the left is flat, and, needle or LED position to the right is sharp.
3. If the note is FLAT at the 12th fret, sharpen the pitch by GRADUALLY adjusting the saddle with the allen key by turning it COUNTERCLOCKWISE until it reaches the correct pitch at the 12th fret as measured by your tuner. You will be loosening the saddle screw and what you are doing is shortening the distance between the nut and the bridge.
4. If the note is SHARP at the 12th fret, flatten the pitch by GRADUALLY adjusting the saddle with the allen key by turning it CLOCKWISE until it reaches the correct pitch at the 12th fret as measured by your tuner. You will be tightening the screw and lenghtening the distance between the nut and the bridge.
Q.E.D.
1. Tune all open strings to concert pitch using an electronic tuner.
2. Check the pitch of each string by playing the note at the 12th fret and observing whether your tuner indicates the note is FLAT or SHARP. Needle or LED position to the left is flat, and, needle or LED position to the right is sharp.
3. If the note is FLAT at the 12th fret, sharpen the pitch by GRADUALLY adjusting the saddle with the allen key by turning it COUNTERCLOCKWISE until it reaches the correct pitch at the 12th fret as measured by your tuner. You will be loosening the saddle screw and what you are doing is shortening the distance between the nut and the bridge.
4. If the note is SHARP at the 12th fret, flatten the pitch by GRADUALLY adjusting the saddle with the allen key by turning it CLOCKWISE until it reaches the correct pitch at the 12th fret as measured by your tuner. You will be tightening the screw and lenghtening the distance between the nut and the bridge.
Q.E.D.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
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Adjusting a guitar is in steps and those steps must be done in order .Whether or not you need to adjust anything in that particular check point does not matter ,but you need to check everything as intonation is the LAST thing to do.
1- tune to concert pitch ,or what ever tuning you plane to use at least 90% of the time.
2 - check the truss rods,if this is not done now ,all the intonating in the world won't help.
To check the truss rods ,you need to fret the strings at the 3rd fret (use a capo for this ...it will free up one hand and make it easier.)
While fretting the 3rd fret ,also fret the last fret on the A string /the 5th ...now how much of a gap is there between the bottom of the string and the top of the 12 th fret?
at the 6th fret ?
you should have no more than .015 and down to the least -.005
Do this same check on the 2nd/Bstring
To adjust the truss rod(s) if the re is a need to straighten the neck ,tighten the rods 1/4 turn each.Now check the neck on the A and the B string
Do this until the neck is as straight as you can get it.
3-bridge heoght
Set the treble side so that you can bend the high E one whole step. (from the note at the 5th fret ,to the note at the 7th fret ...etc.)
you will end up with about 1/8" distance from the string to the fretboard at the last fret.
It may be less ,it could be more.
Now the bass side of the bridge.Start at 1/8" ...does it rattle when you are plugged in?
Don't worry about rattle when you are not-this is an electric guitar and if you ever play a gig live unplugged let me know ...I'll pay to see that.
Set it so you are comfortable with the height.
I'll post this and finish with intonationin my next posting
1- tune to concert pitch ,or what ever tuning you plane to use at least 90% of the time.
2 - check the truss rods,if this is not done now ,all the intonating in the world won't help.
To check the truss rods ,you need to fret the strings at the 3rd fret (use a capo for this ...it will free up one hand and make it easier.)
While fretting the 3rd fret ,also fret the last fret on the A string /the 5th ...now how much of a gap is there between the bottom of the string and the top of the 12 th fret?
at the 6th fret ?
you should have no more than .015 and down to the least -.005
Do this same check on the 2nd/Bstring
To adjust the truss rod(s) if the re is a need to straighten the neck ,tighten the rods 1/4 turn each.Now check the neck on the A and the B string
Do this until the neck is as straight as you can get it.
3-bridge heoght
Set the treble side so that you can bend the high E one whole step. (from the note at the 5th fret ,to the note at the 7th fret ...etc.)
you will end up with about 1/8" distance from the string to the fretboard at the last fret.
It may be less ,it could be more.
Now the bass side of the bridge.Start at 1/8" ...does it rattle when you are plugged in?
Don't worry about rattle when you are not-this is an electric guitar and if you ever play a gig live unplugged let me know ...I'll pay to see that.
Set it so you are comfortable with the height.
I'll post this and finish with intonationin my next posting
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
The previous posting was done without the aid of spell check ......give me some slack
4 -to intonate,all this must be done and ok to correctly intonate any guitar.
5-You must have new strings on the instrument or adjusting the bridge is a waste of time.
to check if you need new strings,take any of the wound strings and roll them over in your fingers and at the point where the string touches the fret,is there a shiny spot?
No ...you are all right
yes? you need new strings
Don't intonate unless you know what gauge (size in thousands ) and the rest of the adjustments have been made.
To intonate using an LED tuner is almost pointless.Do you still have the owners manual?
In it there should be a side note that says how far off the LEDs read something like +/- 15cents
If that is indeed what it says that gives you 30cents ,almost i/3rd of a note !You can hear 5cents off My tuner that I use is adjustable and can take each note and divide it into 100 parts this is off by +/- one cent the ear does not hear that .This is why I say setting intonation by quartz tuners is a poor way to do it.
But as that is all you have I will try to help you .
Tune to pitch
(your picking must be even and of the same attack both for fretted and for open strings)
1-on the wound strings I use both the harmonic at the 5th fret and at the 12th fret
the Harmonic is Correct! not the fretted note .You are adjusting the fretted note to the harmonic.
If the low E string/6th fretted note is flat,it need to be sharpened and moved towards the fretboard.
If it is sharp ,then move the saddle away from the fret board.
There is a basic pattern and law in doing this .When you end up(assuming you are using a plain G/3rd) you will notice that the high E is the closest to the fret board of (the plain strings )
that the B/2nd is about .015 behind that and the G string /3rd is about .025 behind the B string
The D/4th string is almost even with the high E but not quite.About .015 behind it and the 5th string/A is about .020 behind that and the low E/6th string is about .030 behind that .
The pattern is two staggered set of saddles ,one for the plain strings and one for the wound strings.
If you have a wound 3rd/G string it would be in front of the D string (closest to the neck)
If you do not have this pattern ,then you have not done the job correctly and you may have a common problem ...that is the magnets from the pole pieces are pulling on the strings and causing false readings.
On Fender guitars this is really common!To get around it you lower the pickup to get the magnets away from the strings,that clears it up.
On a Rick,there is no height adjustment and you must re move the pickups to change this !!!!
This is why Ricks cost so much to adjust!
And if you have a 12string....This get to be a real headache.
I'm off my soap box...print this out and highlight the sections you need to use to do the job.Good luck .
Ask some of the older guys in music stores for a reference to a repair person .Call /ring them and ask them what they use to set intonation.
I use a Peterson Strobe tuner .
Conn and Yamaha at one time made these.All do the job.
Keep us posted.
Good luck
4 -to intonate,all this must be done and ok to correctly intonate any guitar.
5-You must have new strings on the instrument or adjusting the bridge is a waste of time.
to check if you need new strings,take any of the wound strings and roll them over in your fingers and at the point where the string touches the fret,is there a shiny spot?
No ...you are all right
yes? you need new strings
Don't intonate unless you know what gauge (size in thousands ) and the rest of the adjustments have been made.
To intonate using an LED tuner is almost pointless.Do you still have the owners manual?
In it there should be a side note that says how far off the LEDs read something like +/- 15cents
If that is indeed what it says that gives you 30cents ,almost i/3rd of a note !You can hear 5cents off My tuner that I use is adjustable and can take each note and divide it into 100 parts this is off by +/- one cent the ear does not hear that .This is why I say setting intonation by quartz tuners is a poor way to do it.
But as that is all you have I will try to help you .
Tune to pitch
(your picking must be even and of the same attack both for fretted and for open strings)
1-on the wound strings I use both the harmonic at the 5th fret and at the 12th fret
the Harmonic is Correct! not the fretted note .You are adjusting the fretted note to the harmonic.
If the low E string/6th fretted note is flat,it need to be sharpened and moved towards the fretboard.
If it is sharp ,then move the saddle away from the fret board.
There is a basic pattern and law in doing this .When you end up(assuming you are using a plain G/3rd) you will notice that the high E is the closest to the fret board of (the plain strings )
that the B/2nd is about .015 behind that and the G string /3rd is about .025 behind the B string
The D/4th string is almost even with the high E but not quite.About .015 behind it and the 5th string/A is about .020 behind that and the low E/6th string is about .030 behind that .
The pattern is two staggered set of saddles ,one for the plain strings and one for the wound strings.
If you have a wound 3rd/G string it would be in front of the D string (closest to the neck)
If you do not have this pattern ,then you have not done the job correctly and you may have a common problem ...that is the magnets from the pole pieces are pulling on the strings and causing false readings.
On Fender guitars this is really common!To get around it you lower the pickup to get the magnets away from the strings,that clears it up.
On a Rick,there is no height adjustment and you must re move the pickups to change this !!!!
This is why Ricks cost so much to adjust!
And if you have a 12string....This get to be a real headache.
I'm off my soap box...print this out and highlight the sections you need to use to do the job.Good luck .
Ask some of the older guys in music stores for a reference to a repair person .Call /ring them and ask them what they use to set intonation.
I use a Peterson Strobe tuner .
Conn and Yamaha at one time made these.All do the job.
Keep us posted.
Good luck
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Thanks Mark. I will get a chance to use these recent comments with my 12-string adjustment and intonation. Alas I will be doing it without a Peterson Strobe tuner! But I will be close. As always, I am sure I speak for all when I thank you for your continued assistance and detailed instructions.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
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While Peterson's indeed used to be the cat's meow, they are today virtually obsolete. Ours have been collecting dust on the shelves for several years now.
A modern, moderately priced tuner, such as a Boss TU12, is plus/minus 1 cent worst case. Even a dirt cheap one these days is plus/minus 3 cents. Virtually all of these use the latest Seiko chips and there're only getting better.
A modern, moderately priced tuner, such as a Boss TU12, is plus/minus 1 cent worst case. Even a dirt cheap one these days is plus/minus 3 cents. Virtually all of these use the latest Seiko chips and there're only getting better.
I had one of those Boss tuners and I don't care for it .
Maybe personal preference .
Yes they are only getting better.
I had a rack mounted tuner 5 years ago that I used for 3 weeks .
I could not tune acoustics with it and intonating 12 string acoustic was impossible.
I returned it.
This was one tuner that Bob Bradshaw uses in all his rack setups for the Rock Star crowd.
I also checked the intonation that I had set using it on my Lespaul and my Strat....I was off according to the Peterson.
My ear agreed.All the road crew guys that I know have both ,but use the Peterson to Strobe /intonate.
When I worked at the factory we NEVER had a strobe tuner there until I bought mine.I never heard of one there even when Brian Carman was plant Manager.
I'm glad you finally did get one and glad to hear that tuning forks are not the norm any longer.
Maybe personal preference .
Yes they are only getting better.
I had a rack mounted tuner 5 years ago that I used for 3 weeks .
I could not tune acoustics with it and intonating 12 string acoustic was impossible.
I returned it.
This was one tuner that Bob Bradshaw uses in all his rack setups for the Rock Star crowd.
I also checked the intonation that I had set using it on my Lespaul and my Strat....I was off according to the Peterson.
My ear agreed.All the road crew guys that I know have both ,but use the Peterson to Strobe /intonate.
When I worked at the factory we NEVER had a strobe tuner there until I bought mine.I never heard of one there even when Brian Carman was plant Manager.
I'm glad you finally did get one and glad to hear that tuning forks are not the norm any longer.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Each of our three checkout stands was equipped with Conn Strobo-Tuners (aka Peterson) beginning in 1979, I believe it was. We still have them, lying over in the obsolete area along with some old tube-type electronic gear.
During the 1980's when Brian Carman was manager, he brought in electronic tuners which were used side by side with the Strobo-Tuners for awhile. These have been replaced several times as successively better units became available and the old fashioned strobe tuners were retired in favor of the quartz tuners maybe 6-7 years ago now.
Five years is eternity in the electronics world; perhaps you should see how the world has changed around you.
With regard to tuning as opposed to setting intonation, the Peterson is brain dead in a live situation what with having to switch it from note to note. All of the modern tuners can figure that out for themselves. For intonating on a bench, when you're on the customer's tab clock, they work just fine. Don't forget to lube the wheel bearing from time to time though, as they get "draggy" and sometimes noisy after awhile.
During the 1980's when Brian Carman was manager, he brought in electronic tuners which were used side by side with the Strobo-Tuners for awhile. These have been replaced several times as successively better units became available and the old fashioned strobe tuners were retired in favor of the quartz tuners maybe 6-7 years ago now.
Five years is eternity in the electronics world; perhaps you should see how the world has changed around you.
With regard to tuning as opposed to setting intonation, the Peterson is brain dead in a live situation what with having to switch it from note to note. All of the modern tuners can figure that out for themselves. For intonating on a bench, when you're on the customer's tab clock, they work just fine. Don't forget to lube the wheel bearing from time to time though, as they get "draggy" and sometimes noisy after awhile.
Boy do I know that one ....
Lube is the word .
I tried the DP-101 and it left me cold .
In the band I play with (more of a jam session) most of the guys use the Boss TU 12 ,one of the guys has a rack mounted Peterson that has a foot switching setup ...yes it does get tedious.
I have a tuner that Gibson marketed with the Seiko chip in it ...The needle swings too much and outside sounds seem to interfer with it .
I don't trust it .
I use it for tuning on stage and then the kick drum makes it swing ......This was ine of those ,thanks for your warranty support gift things.
Not the best but ...
Lube is the word .
I tried the DP-101 and it left me cold .
In the band I play with (more of a jam session) most of the guys use the Boss TU 12 ,one of the guys has a rack mounted Peterson that has a foot switching setup ...yes it does get tedious.
I have a tuner that Gibson marketed with the Seiko chip in it ...The needle swings too much and outside sounds seem to interfer with it .
I don't trust it .
I use it for tuning on stage and then the kick drum makes it swing ......This was ine of those ,thanks for your warranty support gift things.
Not the best but ...
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!