The best amp I ever heard a Rick bass played through was a 300W tubed Ampeg SVT with two 8x10 acoustic suspension cabinets.............but try fitting it into your home for practice. If you want the biggest and bestest, you can stop here. It's the Rolls Royce of bass amps. But you don't take a Rolls Royce on an African safari.
I prefer 10" speakers because of the increased top end which will get the ringing sustain. Eminence makes a couple of great 10" models, with the B102 being their most extended bass speaker. The BP102 has no whizzer cone and does not have the upper response of the B102. It is more like the standard SVT cab speaker and is usually paired with a piezo horn or tweeter of some sort. It goes a little lower in the bass before rolling off. Eminence is affordable by anybody not living under a bridge somewhere.
Electro-Voice makes great bass speakers. Bring lots of cash............but they are rebuildable and the last speakers you ever need buy.
Most high quality modern amps have plenty of gain to provide sustain. If they don't, even a cheap Korg AX-1G or AX-1B pedal you can get off of eBay in mint shape used for less than $75 should give you plenty of extra gain for sustain.
I use a single 10" B102 in an acoustic suspension cabinet driven by 20W of hybrid AVT amp in a small room. That gives the sound of an SVT driving sixteen 10" speakers in a very large room, since each speaker sees the same power delivered to it (300 watts divided by sixteen speakers equals approximately 20 watts per speaker) and the cone excursion is the same and the cabinet type is the same.
I've went the long way around the block to say that there is no "best amp" for a Rick bass, unless you specify exactly where it will be used and by what kind of musician playing what kind of music. Most of what you get here is personal opinion based on limited experience anyway, and never forget it.
Amplifiers
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Philip said, "The best amp I ever heard a Rick bass played through was a 300W tubed Ampeg SVT with two 8x10 acoustic suspension cabinets.............but try fitting it into your home for practice. If you want the biggest and bestest, you can stop here. It's the Rolls Royce of bass amps."
Dittos.
I have two SVT-CLs with 810E cabs and it's not by accident. I've used SVTs since the mid '70s and of everything I've tried, they are by far the most suited for a Ric 4001/4003.
Dittos.
I have two SVT-CLs with 810E cabs and it's not by accident. I've used SVTs since the mid '70s and of everything I've tried, they are by far the most suited for a Ric 4001/4003.Yeah John,I have used the same amps for about the same length of time as Brad,two tubed SVT heads with two Svt (8X10) cabs, mine are old ones. When I was young (and unmarried) I used to put them in the living room! haha! all set up and ready to go, which reminds me of a great practical joke I played on a friend who had imbibed a little too much alcohol the night before and passed out on my sofa, I will spare you the details, but I will tell you that he woke up very quickly!
I agree with Phil if you are looking for a small recordable amp, tens are the way to go, they have the top end that you probably want and two of them have more cone area than one fifteen,(I think, what's that formula Phil? pie squared R?), so you also get the bottom.
On the other hand I have recorded with a miked SVT and they sound great in the studio also, I know that they are pretty standard at many recording studios. I have always liked the Ampegs for bass. They also make some 4X10 and 2X10 cabs.
I agree with Phil if you are looking for a small recordable amp, tens are the way to go, they have the top end that you probably want and two of them have more cone area than one fifteen,(I think, what's that formula Phil? pie squared R?), so you also get the bottom.
On the other hand I have recorded with a miked SVT and they sound great in the studio also, I know that they are pretty standard at many recording studios. I have always liked the Ampegs for bass. They also make some 4X10 and 2X10 cabs.
I got my new Monster Cable Performer P-500 cables in yesterday, one in Rock Guitar and the other in Bass. I tested them and learned some interesting things, both with a specialized electronic test instrument and my ears, relative to some other cables. They tested differently, which means Monster Cable is doing more than just changing the labeling and advertising hype.
The good news is that they blew the other cables away. The bad news is that they cost about $50 each. I am going to start a new thread and tell how to do your own test among the cables you have using a high gain guitar amp, your ears, and nothing else. Tune in if interested.
The good news is that they blew the other cables away. The bad news is that they cost about $50 each. I am going to start a new thread and tell how to do your own test among the cables you have using a high gain guitar amp, your ears, and nothing else. Tune in if interested.
Ampeg amps may rule, but not if the person using one is also using Rotosound flatwound nylon strings like I had the misfortune of buying in 1976. Never got a good sound out of those strings. Talk about dead. Those were the disco days, so I'm going to blame their creation on disco music. Imagine them with a 1x18 folded horn cab also. I'll blame that on disco music as well. There's not a 4001 ever made that could have gotten a ringing sustain with that combination, even using an SVT head.
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jwr2
I never use flat wound strings ... I have no use for them ... but a 1x18 folded horn in combo with a 2x10 cab is a killer combo ... a lot of that depends on the frequency response of the 18 ... some 18's only reproduce lows ... bummer ...
I use an ampeg head and 2x10's and 1x18 cabs ... this is a killer combo ... with the 18 I can run less bass to the 10's so they can be more efficent in the mid and high frequencies ...
I use an ampeg head and 2x10's and 1x18 cabs ... this is a killer combo ... with the 18 I can run less bass to the 10's so they can be more efficent in the mid and high frequencies ...
Jeff, some people have a tolerance for horn speakers, while others do not. The problem seems to be phase related and how a person's brain works. I like phase coherent audiophile loudspeakers (Vandersteen, VMPS, Meadowlark, etc.) and mine are driven by extremely phase coherent amps (Conrad-Johnson). Other setups don't sound "right" to me. Some people like British audiophile loudspeakers with high crossover slopes, and drive them with high feedback amps, but they tear apart the music by separating the fundamental from the overtones. Your brain has to "rejoin" the sound, and that causes me listening fatigue. Phase coherent speakers sound natural and I listen to mine for hours without listening fatigue. If using multiple drivers, you must use 6 dB/octave single-pole filter networks to maintain phase coherency. The drivers must also be similar. That causes more stress on drivers and is rarely used in professional sound reinforcement gear as it lowers the maximum power handling capability. The cure is a single driver setup if you can get away with it. That's impossible for full spectrum PA, but doable on a bass. An SVT setup with lots of small identical drivers that essentially cover the full bass guitar spectrum eliminates the crossover bugaboo. The sound is described as "tight" as it is coherent across the full spectrum it reproduces, and sounds natural. Folded horn cabs will not form phase coherent sound with any other speaker design. Bass reflex cabs also tear apart the lowest notes of a bass and do not have the broad smooth rolloff of an acoustic suspension design. The port is "slow" in relation to the driver, which is another way of describing phase shift. My folded horn cab never sounded "right" to me, but the first time I heard an Ampeg SVT amp with two 8x10 acoustic suspension cabs was a revelation. The point is this: If you can tolerate folded horn speakers in your home (Klipschorns, Lowthers, etc.), then you may like folded horn bass cabs. I suspect that people liking horns are more attuned to dynamic range than phase coherency in their music. Nothing matches a horn for efficiency, and thus freedom from clipping and dynamic compression. For those of us that have brains that pick up on phase relationships very strongly, the Ampeg SVT with it's multiple 10" speakers will remain the Rolls Royce of bass amps. The guy that bought my folded horn cab actually liked it. Different strokes for different folks.
I suspect that bass and guitar players have a tendency to own similar types of home audio and musical instrument gear, but I have never read a study on the subject. What about it........do you guys reading this own similar types of speaker cabinets in both your home audio and musical instrument setups? My home audio gear and guitar amps also use some tubes in their signal paths as well. It just sounds right that way.
I suspect that bass and guitar players have a tendency to own similar types of home audio and musical instrument gear, but I have never read a study on the subject. What about it........do you guys reading this own similar types of speaker cabinets in both your home audio and musical instrument setups? My home audio gear and guitar amps also use some tubes in their signal paths as well. It just sounds right that way.
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jwr2
I have to admit I'm not much of an audiophile so my home stereo gear isn't anything worth mentioning really. On the other hand I do pay attention and care about my bass' sound. I have an SVT CL with 8X10 cabinet and I agree the sound can border on awesome. Unfortunately I am putting this rig up for sale as I can't really deal with the weight and size anymore plus the band I'm in has a very good PA with 4 - 18's carrying the low end.
Until I can build another more portable rig I will be pulling my Sunn Colliseum 300 and SPL 8028 cabinet out of storage. This rig sounds great with a 4003 and I used it for a long time with my '86 4003. The 8028 cab has 1 front loaded 18" and 1 12" in it, the 18 is installed at an angle in the bottom of the cabinet in a ported enclosure with a horizontal port between the 18 and 12. The 12 is in its own sealed enclosure so to speak and isolated from the 18. The cabinet also has an internal passive crossover. This rig isn't very light either but it is when compared to the SVT. The cabinet weighs 148 lbs. and the head probably less than 35 lbs.
Deciding on a long term replacement amp and speaker set up is a whole 'nother story.
Until I can build another more portable rig I will be pulling my Sunn Colliseum 300 and SPL 8028 cabinet out of storage. This rig sounds great with a 4003 and I used it for a long time with my '86 4003. The 8028 cab has 1 front loaded 18" and 1 12" in it, the 18 is installed at an angle in the bottom of the cabinet in a ported enclosure with a horizontal port between the 18 and 12. The 12 is in its own sealed enclosure so to speak and isolated from the 18. The cabinet also has an internal passive crossover. This rig isn't very light either but it is when compared to the SVT. The cabinet weighs 148 lbs. and the head probably less than 35 lbs.
Deciding on a long term replacement amp and speaker set up is a whole 'nother story.
Robert, every SVT outfit should come with a roadie. Alas, the world's best sounding bass amp has some ownership issues, no doubt. When I want a bigger rig I'm going to go with two 2x10 cabs and a stereo amp putting out 300WPC into 4 ohms. For smaller rooms, a single 2x10 should do nicely. I can arrange all the speakers vertically aligned for better horizontal dispersion of the highs. I don't want the cabs to weigh over 60# each, so a 2x10 is the max size I'll buy. Since the 10" speaker I like best is rated at 200W of music power, I can back WAY off in the number of drivers I need to get good volume. 4 of them will go as loud as 2 of the big SVT cabs from the early 70's, as those drivers were only rated at 30W each. 16 speakers gave you 480W of power handling, but I get 800W out of 4 now. Speaker technology has improved dramatically in 30 years. You might want to look at Ampeg's Portabass amps if weight and size is getting to be an issue for you.
Jeff, that 18" in a standard cab should sound better than one in a horn enclosure. However, a 4x10 cabinet is equivalent in surface area to a single 20" driver, and the 10" speakers have a much broader frequency response. The B102 goes up to 9 kHz on axis. I think some bassists like the 18" speaker because it has no real highs, especially off axis. Rather than roll it off with a tone control, just let it roll itself off. I like your idea of not using any crossovers between your cabs. I remember reading where John Entwistle said that he never could get a crossover to sound right, and he tried every which way there was. He just put a separate amp to each cabinet and adjusted each amp to that cabinet.
That PA system you described must really pack a wallop! My ears are ringing just hearing you describe it.
Jeff, that 18" in a standard cab should sound better than one in a horn enclosure. However, a 4x10 cabinet is equivalent in surface area to a single 20" driver, and the 10" speakers have a much broader frequency response. The B102 goes up to 9 kHz on axis. I think some bassists like the 18" speaker because it has no real highs, especially off axis. Rather than roll it off with a tone control, just let it roll itself off. I like your idea of not using any crossovers between your cabs. I remember reading where John Entwistle said that he never could get a crossover to sound right, and he tried every which way there was. He just put a separate amp to each cabinet and adjusted each amp to that cabinet.
That PA system you described must really pack a wallop! My ears are ringing just hearing you describe it.
Phil, Any thoughts on Acme's Low B cabs? Everything I've read indicates they need lots of power (power is cheap these days) have little coloration, and best of all are very light. I'm toying with going modular and maybe getting two of their 2x10 cabs. Ampegs cabs have their own coloration so even if I used an Ampeg tube pre-amp (can't remember the model) it won't sound exactly like an Ampeg and I realize that.
I plan to check out the Portabass as well.
I plan to check out the Portabass as well.
Well, Robert, I haven't really checked the Acme out. My problem is that there really isn't that much new in speaker cabinets, as far as breakthrough designs go. Power IS cheap these days, and for bass players needing lots of it, the new lightweight solid state amps fill the bill. Tubes seem to be relegated to the domain of those needing overdrive distortion. Bass players play cleaner, so solid state works very well. Modern 10" speakers handle several times the power that old 15" speakers once did.
I have been toying with the idea of getting thick 4x8 sheets of birch plywood and putting four 10" drivers near the long side. It could then be sat on the floor with the drivers near the floor. The large flat baffle could prevent backwave cancellation to a fairly low frequency.....much lower than a standard open backed combo amp. Two of these panels could be stood on their short side with their long sides joined together with the drivers close to each other in the center of the 8x8 panel thus formed. It would eliminate box coloration and give a more open sound to the bass, like an open backed guitar cabinet. Transportation would be a problem, but the 4x8 sheets could be cut into 2x8 or 4x4 sections and assembled on site. No more problem than a drum kit. The flat panels could be painted with artwork or band logo. Bob Carver did something similar over 10 years ago with his Amazing Loudspeakers. They had much better bass than the large electrostatic panel speakers of the time. I think my wonderbass could be arranged with hinges and locking devices and folding stands all built-in to where portability wasn't much of an issue. Sort of the "coleman camper" of bass amps. Neodymium magnets like in Celestion's Century guitar speaker would make it considerably lighter. Each common bass cabinet probably eats up one 4x8 plywood sheet in their construction as it is. Building those cabinets is major work.
The Portabass is about as radical as it gets for now. Anybody who owns rollaway luggage has already tested the basic sales feature.
I have been toying with the idea of getting thick 4x8 sheets of birch plywood and putting four 10" drivers near the long side. It could then be sat on the floor with the drivers near the floor. The large flat baffle could prevent backwave cancellation to a fairly low frequency.....much lower than a standard open backed combo amp. Two of these panels could be stood on their short side with their long sides joined together with the drivers close to each other in the center of the 8x8 panel thus formed. It would eliminate box coloration and give a more open sound to the bass, like an open backed guitar cabinet. Transportation would be a problem, but the 4x8 sheets could be cut into 2x8 or 4x4 sections and assembled on site. No more problem than a drum kit. The flat panels could be painted with artwork or band logo. Bob Carver did something similar over 10 years ago with his Amazing Loudspeakers. They had much better bass than the large electrostatic panel speakers of the time. I think my wonderbass could be arranged with hinges and locking devices and folding stands all built-in to where portability wasn't much of an issue. Sort of the "coleman camper" of bass amps. Neodymium magnets like in Celestion's Century guitar speaker would make it considerably lighter. Each common bass cabinet probably eats up one 4x8 plywood sheet in their construction as it is. Building those cabinets is major work.
The Portabass is about as radical as it gets for now. Anybody who owns rollaway luggage has already tested the basic sales feature.