Amplifiers
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Hi Phil, no I certainly don't use big amps at home, I use a 100 watt solid state B-15T with one 15" speaker usually. I have been in Lima, Peru´ S. America for about 4 and a half months and am using an antique Phillips shortwave radio! haha, it is all I have here, probably puts out about 5 watts and has an 8" speaker, and is open backed, it has one EL84 for an output tube (6CA5) and actually sounds nice with a '79 4001 with Ric round wound strings on it, nice round warm sound, almost like an old B-15. A good bass should sound good through about anything.
I have never heard of Madison speakers.
And yeah Dane, I like those small Gallien-Krueger heads, they are a favorite at blues jams around the Boston area. I think that they are very smooth and natural sounding, especially for a SS amp.
I have never heard of Madison speakers.
And yeah Dane, I like those small Gallien-Krueger heads, they are a favorite at blues jams around the Boston area. I think that they are very smooth and natural sounding, especially for a SS amp.
Bob, an audio amp is an audio amp! The speaker cab is what makes it bass, guitar, or organ/piano oriented, for the most part. You will probably get better sound from that speaker if you put it in a closed box to prevent backwave cancellation of the bass frequencies. The speaker was made for an open enclosure, so it will not work in a small box like an acoustic suspension speaker. It needs an "infinite baffle" enclosure, which means the box is big enough to NOT give much of an "acoustic spring" effect. You can transfer it to a bigger cabinet, or do what I have done in an emergency. You gain 9 dB of bass boost relative to free field environment (away from any boundaries) if you put a speaker in the corner of a room. This is where most audiophiles put their subwoofers, and it helps prevent "standing wave" problems as well, since the corner placement puts the speaker in a "pressure zone". Just back that shortwave radio into a corner, place a triangular piece of plywood on top of it, and weight it down with a bag of lead shot, rocks, books, potted plant, or what have you. You have closed off the back for the most part, while adding some volume to the cabinet to prevent too much midbass peakiness. The walls and floor make a broad bass horn, and the radio speaker is now acting like a compression driver. Get a long guitar cord and you can stand way out in the room and play it. You will find that by moving around the room, the bass is much stronger in spots, usually near a corner gives you the strongest bass. In my room, when I listen to music videos, I can simply lean forward or lay back with my head near the wall to get a sound that is the best for the particular song. Give it a try and see what you think.
Oh, and do not forget any cooling issues, since it is a tube amp. By closing it off somewhat, it may overheat. Might want to put a fan on it when you do this.
Oh, and do not forget any cooling issues, since it is a tube amp. By closing it off somewhat, it may overheat. Might want to put a fan on it when you do this.
Thanks for the advice Phil, I understand acoustics also, I always go for the corners in rooms if I can get them, I have read books on the different types of enclosures, this is an old radio in very nice condition, so I wouldn't want to close off the back because of heat, in fact I have the back off of it, Lima is pretty hot most of the year. Believe it or not it actually sounds kind of punchy and of course I don't play it at a very high volume, but it has both bass and treble controls on it, so I get a decent tone, better than some amps I have heard! The radio was made to have a nice tone, not to project volume, so it does sound nice, you usually sacrifice some sound quality for projection in a speaker, unless of course you are using K-horns! With this radio I don't need to place it in a corner.
An audio amp is an audio amp, yes but bass amplifiers usually have bigger transformers and the preamp section is usually voiced for bass (one octave down from a guitar amp), that is why guitar amp tone controls ususally don't do much with a bass, for example a Marshall's tone controls do virtually nothing with a bass but really change a guitars tone. same with Fenders in my experience, a Bassman head is heavier and louder than a Bandmaster, and the tone controls in the bassman are better for bass than the bandmasters. But the Bandmaster has a much sweeter tone for a guitar than a Bassman. I know that a lot of guitar players like the old Bassmans though. I guess the first Marshall's were based on them.
The cabinet on this radio is pretty big so for the most part the backwave does not cancel the frontwave, in a corner the backwave will actually reinforce the frontwave if they are in phase. Not practical for a bass amp though. I like acoustic suspension speakers such as the SVT, very tight and punchy, I don't like folded horn speakers and can take or leave ported speakers. Not to get off the subject of Rics, but I have one of those little Bose wave radios with the transmission line ports (special folded horn) and they are amazing, the speakers are about 2 or 2.5 in. and they seem to go as low as 40 hz. (in a corner) not much kick drum out of them though, they boom from about 60 hz. B flat approximately.
An audio amp is an audio amp, yes but bass amplifiers usually have bigger transformers and the preamp section is usually voiced for bass (one octave down from a guitar amp), that is why guitar amp tone controls ususally don't do much with a bass, for example a Marshall's tone controls do virtually nothing with a bass but really change a guitars tone. same with Fenders in my experience, a Bassman head is heavier and louder than a Bandmaster, and the tone controls in the bassman are better for bass than the bandmasters. But the Bandmaster has a much sweeter tone for a guitar than a Bassman. I know that a lot of guitar players like the old Bassmans though. I guess the first Marshall's were based on them.
The cabinet on this radio is pretty big so for the most part the backwave does not cancel the frontwave, in a corner the backwave will actually reinforce the frontwave if they are in phase. Not practical for a bass amp though. I like acoustic suspension speakers such as the SVT, very tight and punchy, I don't like folded horn speakers and can take or leave ported speakers. Not to get off the subject of Rics, but I have one of those little Bose wave radios with the transmission line ports (special folded horn) and they are amazing, the speakers are about 2 or 2.5 in. and they seem to go as low as 40 hz. (in a corner) not much kick drum out of them though, they boom from about 60 hz. B flat approximately.
Bob, we have a lot of the same taste in speaker cabinets. I had a Peavey 1x18 folded horn that was earthquake loud, but the tone sucked. It was causing too many problems for me, so I sold it and have never missed it. I am not fond of piezo horns either. The B102 speakers certainly don't need them as they produce plenty of highs for bass guitars and are more extended than just about any guitar speaker. In fact, they make good guitar speakers if tight and clean is what you are after.
I had a set of JMLab Daline (decoupled antiresonant line) mini towers with single 5" Focal dual-coil woofers and 1" Focal titanium inverted dome tweeters that was flat from 30 Hz to dog whistle territory. It was a French patented design that combined acoustic suspension and transmission line technology in the same box. Incredible speakers, I had to sell them to my brother because I vegged out in front of them for days and could get nothing accomplished in my life. The clarity and detail was absolutely unreal.
Acoustic suspension bass is the tightest and most accurate I know of. My little AVT20 Marshall amp has an Eminence B102 installed, which is similar to an SVT speaker (the SVT speaker has a smaller magnet, and no whizzer cone, I believe), and it puts out a nice full spectrum sound. Ported cabinets tend to sound "slow" to me, as if the port sound is lagging the woofer and muddying it up.
My Vandersteen 2Ci audio speakers use a bass design patented by Mile Nestorovic, who was once the chief engineer for McIntosh Laboratories. Nestorovic is the only other brand that uses the design, and they are a very small company. Vandersteen uses an 8" woofer and a 10" acoustic coupler that is a speaker cone with a very high "Q" of around 10 that is tuned to resonate around 35 Hz. An electrical network consisting of a choke and capacitor, I believe, spreads out the resonance so that it covers a much broader frequency than the acoustic coupler would on its own, given its extremely high "Q". In this respect it differs from a simple passive radiator, which is a takeoff on the bass reflex design, since a passive radiator is connected to nothing electrically. I have measured response down to 25 Hz in my room. Nothing beats a Vandersteen 2Ci in bass response at its modest price point. Not even those JMLab Daline speakers. It would be a good design to try for a bass guitar cabinet since a smaller speaker can drive a larger acoustic coupler, and that increases the bandwidth at both high and low ends. The problem is finding a speaker with a "Q" of 10 that can be used for an acoustic coupler, since they are not available off the shelf (I've looked) and must be custom ordered for the design. MAJOR BUMMER!!! It could really work well in tandem with an Eminence B102. I have not called Eminence personally to see what it would cost to special order some 12" or 15" speakers with a "Q" of 10. This requirement for a high "Q" speaker basically removes this Nestorovic speaker design from the realm of the casual hobbyist. It could revolutionize bass guitar cabinets, but the guitar amp business seems too "stuck in the mud" for such a radical design. And Mile wants his royalty fee, of course.
I really liked the Ampeg SVT from the first time I heard one in person in 1976. But too big, heavy, and expensive for me. I may get it's poor little cousin, that appeared first and was the inspiration for the SVT, the Traynor YBA1. It should power a 2x10 cabinet very nicely.
I had a set of JMLab Daline (decoupled antiresonant line) mini towers with single 5" Focal dual-coil woofers and 1" Focal titanium inverted dome tweeters that was flat from 30 Hz to dog whistle territory. It was a French patented design that combined acoustic suspension and transmission line technology in the same box. Incredible speakers, I had to sell them to my brother because I vegged out in front of them for days and could get nothing accomplished in my life. The clarity and detail was absolutely unreal.
Acoustic suspension bass is the tightest and most accurate I know of. My little AVT20 Marshall amp has an Eminence B102 installed, which is similar to an SVT speaker (the SVT speaker has a smaller magnet, and no whizzer cone, I believe), and it puts out a nice full spectrum sound. Ported cabinets tend to sound "slow" to me, as if the port sound is lagging the woofer and muddying it up.
My Vandersteen 2Ci audio speakers use a bass design patented by Mile Nestorovic, who was once the chief engineer for McIntosh Laboratories. Nestorovic is the only other brand that uses the design, and they are a very small company. Vandersteen uses an 8" woofer and a 10" acoustic coupler that is a speaker cone with a very high "Q" of around 10 that is tuned to resonate around 35 Hz. An electrical network consisting of a choke and capacitor, I believe, spreads out the resonance so that it covers a much broader frequency than the acoustic coupler would on its own, given its extremely high "Q". In this respect it differs from a simple passive radiator, which is a takeoff on the bass reflex design, since a passive radiator is connected to nothing electrically. I have measured response down to 25 Hz in my room. Nothing beats a Vandersteen 2Ci in bass response at its modest price point. Not even those JMLab Daline speakers. It would be a good design to try for a bass guitar cabinet since a smaller speaker can drive a larger acoustic coupler, and that increases the bandwidth at both high and low ends. The problem is finding a speaker with a "Q" of 10 that can be used for an acoustic coupler, since they are not available off the shelf (I've looked) and must be custom ordered for the design. MAJOR BUMMER!!! It could really work well in tandem with an Eminence B102. I have not called Eminence personally to see what it would cost to special order some 12" or 15" speakers with a "Q" of 10. This requirement for a high "Q" speaker basically removes this Nestorovic speaker design from the realm of the casual hobbyist. It could revolutionize bass guitar cabinets, but the guitar amp business seems too "stuck in the mud" for such a radical design. And Mile wants his royalty fee, of course.
I really liked the Ampeg SVT from the first time I heard one in person in 1976. But too big, heavy, and expensive for me. I may get it's poor little cousin, that appeared first and was the inspiration for the SVT, the Traynor YBA1. It should power a 2x10 cabinet very nicely.
Hi Phil,
I am impressed with your explanion of "Q" I never really understood it before, course I never really tried) It sounds like you have had some amazing speakers, I could veg in front of nice stereos too, I once owned one MC 30 with a matching preamp, I had a mono Advent FM radio with an external amp output (was the little cube shaped radio, forgot it's name) I used the radio as a tuner with the Macintosh and preamp with various speakers, what a sound! That amp sold me on tube stereos, unfortunately I had to sell that too. I also remember the Traynor YBA1's 200WRMS? One of my friends had one, I think it had a 4X10 cab, this was pre-SVT (68?) It was the loudest amp for bass we had seen, before that the Bassman and Dual Showman were the king of the bass amps, especially the Dual Showman. Then the SVT's came out (along with the Acoustics and Sunns) and blew everyones mind. (that expression dates me I think.
I use large Advents now, I had to buy new woofers from Advent, and they still stock them (the surrounds had deteriorated). I like them also, very tight bass, very detailed for twenty five year old speakers. I once used two JBL bass bins with one 15" Celestion in each, the soundman talked me into it. They sounded great twenty feet in front of the cabs, but had nothing up close. I sold them to the band for the PA and bought two SVT's again (the soundman didn't like them) The old SVT speakers had small magnets, I have two approximately 1970 cabs, each cab handles 240WRMS!
That is why when the SVT first appeared you were supposed to buy two cabs. The original speakers are only 30 WRMS speakers. I like the way they sound though, and I don't push them. I've only had to replace a few speakers in close to thirty years (different cabs) I use two small new B-15T cabs for small rooms, but they don't really project the sound very well, they sound great on the stage though. I think the speakers are Eminence in them. I took the heads off of them and use the SVT head with them. They are ported and boomy, they sound good for roots music.
I am impressed with your explanion of "Q" I never really understood it before, course I never really tried) It sounds like you have had some amazing speakers, I could veg in front of nice stereos too, I once owned one MC 30 with a matching preamp, I had a mono Advent FM radio with an external amp output (was the little cube shaped radio, forgot it's name) I used the radio as a tuner with the Macintosh and preamp with various speakers, what a sound! That amp sold me on tube stereos, unfortunately I had to sell that too. I also remember the Traynor YBA1's 200WRMS? One of my friends had one, I think it had a 4X10 cab, this was pre-SVT (68?) It was the loudest amp for bass we had seen, before that the Bassman and Dual Showman were the king of the bass amps, especially the Dual Showman. Then the SVT's came out (along with the Acoustics and Sunns) and blew everyones mind. (that expression dates me I think.
I use large Advents now, I had to buy new woofers from Advent, and they still stock them (the surrounds had deteriorated). I like them also, very tight bass, very detailed for twenty five year old speakers. I once used two JBL bass bins with one 15" Celestion in each, the soundman talked me into it. They sounded great twenty feet in front of the cabs, but had nothing up close. I sold them to the band for the PA and bought two SVT's again (the soundman didn't like them) The old SVT speakers had small magnets, I have two approximately 1970 cabs, each cab handles 240WRMS!
That is why when the SVT first appeared you were supposed to buy two cabs. The original speakers are only 30 WRMS speakers. I like the way they sound though, and I don't push them. I've only had to replace a few speakers in close to thirty years (different cabs) I use two small new B-15T cabs for small rooms, but they don't really project the sound very well, they sound great on the stage though. I think the speakers are Eminence in them. I took the heads off of them and use the SVT head with them. They are ported and boomy, they sound good for roots music.
Bob, I don't collect old radios. As a matter of fact, my 80's era Hafler tuner is acting up on me. It fades in and out and sometimes you get people talking over the music. I bought a more modern active antenna from Radio Shack, and moved my tuner to the bedroom to get it away from other electrical devices. Turning on my CD player would shut it down. We'll see this weekend how the fancy new Radio Shack FM antenna works. I want one of those new remote controlled Fanfare tuners so I can sit on my butt and change channels.
About my new "bass freak" speakers.........I have a VMPS Ribbon Monitor 1 speaker kit to get built one of these days. It uses a push-pull ribbon midrange (patented and exclusive) and ribbon tweeters. The cabinets are already assembled and coated with some yellow stuff on the inside that cuts spurious cabinet resonances by at least 10 dB. You might want to call up VMPS Audio in California and see about getting some of that stuff to coat your SVT cabinets. My speaker cabs have dual 8" woofers arranged vertically on the narrow front side of the cabinet with a bottom-firing slot-loaded passive radiator. It is supposed to be a bass freak's type of speaker. Brian Cheney was never shy about putting lots of bass into his VMPS speaker designs. His subwoofers are an audiophile legend. The midrange on my Ribbon Monitor 1 goes from under 200 Hz to at least 7 kHz. In other words, no crossover in the critical voice frequency, and it lets the woofers be real woofers without being compromised in order to provide midrange. Without screwing up the midrange to get it. All crossovers are phase coherent. His prices are "real world", unlike most of his competition. He is sort of like RIC in that he doesn't advertise much and has very few dealers (most audio dealers suck anyway, and want the manufacturer to finance them with 90-day free credit), and will take orders directly from customers if no local dealer is nearby. Most of his dealers mailorder sell as well.
The Traynor YBA1 puts out 60W at most, but its larger brother (forget the model number) puts out around 200W. I see the YBA1 all the time on eBay. The "big brother" is much harder to come by. I would also like to snag a Garnet amp some day. They were made in Winnipeg and were the original "boutique amp". Randy Bachman would use nothing else, and they invented the overdrive preamp (with Randy's help), not Marshall as most people suspect. Called it the "Herzog", and you first heard it on "No Time" by The Guess Who. Traynor invented the master volume control, not Marshall. The old Traynor heads have a "flip top" cabinet design that makes servicing a snap as well. I'll shut up before I run the prices up.
About my new "bass freak" speakers.........I have a VMPS Ribbon Monitor 1 speaker kit to get built one of these days. It uses a push-pull ribbon midrange (patented and exclusive) and ribbon tweeters. The cabinets are already assembled and coated with some yellow stuff on the inside that cuts spurious cabinet resonances by at least 10 dB. You might want to call up VMPS Audio in California and see about getting some of that stuff to coat your SVT cabinets. My speaker cabs have dual 8" woofers arranged vertically on the narrow front side of the cabinet with a bottom-firing slot-loaded passive radiator. It is supposed to be a bass freak's type of speaker. Brian Cheney was never shy about putting lots of bass into his VMPS speaker designs. His subwoofers are an audiophile legend. The midrange on my Ribbon Monitor 1 goes from under 200 Hz to at least 7 kHz. In other words, no crossover in the critical voice frequency, and it lets the woofers be real woofers without being compromised in order to provide midrange. Without screwing up the midrange to get it. All crossovers are phase coherent. His prices are "real world", unlike most of his competition. He is sort of like RIC in that he doesn't advertise much and has very few dealers (most audio dealers suck anyway, and want the manufacturer to finance them with 90-day free credit), and will take orders directly from customers if no local dealer is nearby. Most of his dealers mailorder sell as well.
The Traynor YBA1 puts out 60W at most, but its larger brother (forget the model number) puts out around 200W. I see the YBA1 all the time on eBay. The "big brother" is much harder to come by. I would also like to snag a Garnet amp some day. They were made in Winnipeg and were the original "boutique amp". Randy Bachman would use nothing else, and they invented the overdrive preamp (with Randy's help), not Marshall as most people suspect. Called it the "Herzog", and you first heard it on "No Time" by The Guess Who. Traynor invented the master volume control, not Marshall. The old Traynor heads have a "flip top" cabinet design that makes servicing a snap as well. I'll shut up before I run the prices up.
I loved Randy Bachman's guitar playing, I saw The Guess Who near Worcester Ma. (30 miles west of Boston) in 1970 at an outside concert. They were great! Harmonies right on, everything sounded great, and the PA's weren't that great then as I'm sure you probably know. Did all their great stuff, very professional sounding, but live at the same time. (not carbon copies of their songs) They rocked and did all their quieter songs. do you remember their version of Shakin' all Over? Was about 1965, I think they had a different singer back then, what a rocking song, great bass line, the bass really made that song. (for me anyway, and it was a big hit, all the neighborhood bands played it) That was one of the songs that really made me want to play bass. It is hard to find now though. I found it on an old LP with their early stuff on it, most of the LP is good too. Sort of like The Easy Beats, that type of stuff, fit right in with the rest of the music at that time.
I'd like to check out those speakers, if I ever get out of Peru´ No it is nice here, but having no amp is driving me crazy, no amp: no play. I played once here, I sat in with a Beatle cover band, they were good, except for the Spanish accents, the bands here are good, mucho competition.
I don't remember the model number of that Traynor, YBA3? I remember being surprised that it had tens in it, all the bass amps of that era had 15's except for the old 4X10 bassman (and the 2X12 bassman) and that was open backed, I never even knew that one existed until I saw harp players using them years later.
I'd like to check out those speakers, if I ever get out of Peru´ No it is nice here, but having no amp is driving me crazy, no amp: no play. I played once here, I sat in with a Beatle cover band, they were good, except for the Spanish accents, the bands here are good, mucho competition.
I don't remember the model number of that Traynor, YBA3? I remember being surprised that it had tens in it, all the bass amps of that era had 15's except for the old 4X10 bassman (and the 2X12 bassman) and that was open backed, I never even knew that one existed until I saw harp players using them years later.
Bob, I was reading in Bass Guitar Player out of England that Peavey's new BAM 210 combo was a very nice portable bass amp. It is a modeling amp sort of like the kind that guitar players have had for some time now. They rated it highly. Peavey amps are usually better than people give them credit for being. It would be good for a cover band or somebody that needed a smaller combo for club gigs or recording duty. Retail was 1099 pounds in England.
wow, they don't give them away in England, do they? I have heard some good sounding Peaveys, I have never owned one though. I used to play with a guitar player who had a Peavey Classic, it was a twin twelve tube amp, I don't know the power rating, but it was a nice sounding amp, great rock 'n roll tone.
I'd like to pickup a good 4X10 cab, actually now that I think of it, I used a Peavey 4X10 cab for a while about ten years ago, I forgot what the head was, it had a nice sound to it, it was a ported cab and I was playing in a blues band and the big boomy sound fit the band.
I'd like to pickup a good 4X10 cab, actually now that I think of it, I used a Peavey 4X10 cab for a while about ten years ago, I forgot what the head was, it had a nice sound to it, it was a ported cab and I was playing in a blues band and the big boomy sound fit the band.
Phil, have you ever heard of a Marshall Major head? They were 200 WRMS with 4 KT88's for output (6550's) I used to use one for bass, I think that it was actually a guitar head as it had a presence control which did absolutley nothing with my P bass with flatwound strings on it, (this was a long time ago), it sounded great for a guitar but would kill you it was so loud, it has no master volume. just a kill control! went to 12, not 11. It's another thing I'm kicking myself for selling, as they are going for around $1000.00 now (I sold it for $200.00 in 1975)
Bob, I own a couple of the new AVT Marshalls, but have had no dealings with any old Marshall amp. My Traynor YCV40 is better made than my AVT50, and it sounds better as well (on guitar, not bass). I use the modified AVT20 for bass practice so I don't lose my lease. Never heard of the Major, but I can tell you that at $25 or more for new Russian KT88 tubes, plus shipping, it costs a lot to retube a KT88 amp. A 6L6 or EL34 amp will cost you $15 per tube, an EL84 amp $15 per pair of tubes. Major must have stood for major expense, major volume, major problems. Some old Marshall amps were notorious for eating output tubes. A single screen grid resistor was sometimes shared by several output tubes that were run very hard to begin with! Go to the ToneLizard website and get filled in on the problems of some of those old Marshall amps by an amp tech that fixed lots of them. They can be made reliable by an experienced tech. It sounds like the Major was strictly a stadium amp. Old Marshalls sell for more than they're worth. I've seen old Fender Deluxe Reverbs go for over $1300 on eBay. Insanity.
Musician's Friend is selling the Behringer Ultrabass BX1200 Combo for $249.99. It's 120W solid state with a 12" speaker with aluminum cone. I hear it's a good econo bass amp with active 4-band EQ.
Musician's Friend is selling the Behringer Ultrabass BX1200 Combo for $249.99. It's 120W solid state with a 12" speaker with aluminum cone. I hear it's a good econo bass amp with active 4-band EQ.
