SansAmp RBI and similar preamps with RIC basses
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
The master plan for the power amp system I am using (see above) is that one day when I get another pre-amp such as the RBI, I can utilize the RicOsound through one amp (without another 30+ lbs added to the current 70+ lbs rack) ... though it does mean another cab.. but that somehow seems nicer to deal with than two amps.. perhaps by virtue of being less susceptible to heat or the jigglies, as I am always concerned about that with my amp rack... to the point of getting pneumatic tires for the dolly. Go stereo PA! It's one less component to worry about.
My RBI preamp sounds really good through my bedroom stereo system. Radio Shack gold-plated Y-adapter, part# 274-880, allows you to use a standard stereo RCA cable pair between the RBI and a stereo preamp/amp.
Based on what I have heard through my stereo system, I would not hesitate to use the RBI through a good PA system. Why carry a bigass bass amp if the house owns a nice PA system?
I did discover the first flaw in the RBI: Tech 21 did not supply it with rubber feet. Not a problem if you rackmount it, but Radio Shack part# 64-2342 will give you enough rubber feet for two RBI's and the equipment the RBI sits on will thank you. It also prevents the RBI from sliding around while you tweak the controls. Radio Shack part# 64-1883, Ceramic Magnets, will attach the RBI even more securely to a steel surface yet allow easy removal.
Based on what I have heard through my stereo system, I would not hesitate to use the RBI through a good PA system. Why carry a bigass bass amp if the house owns a nice PA system?
I did discover the first flaw in the RBI: Tech 21 did not supply it with rubber feet. Not a problem if you rackmount it, but Radio Shack part# 64-2342 will give you enough rubber feet for two RBI's and the equipment the RBI sits on will thank you. It also prevents the RBI from sliding around while you tweak the controls. Radio Shack part# 64-1883, Ceramic Magnets, will attach the RBI even more securely to a steel surface yet allow easy removal.
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dano
I had a Sansamp DI a few years ago and sold it. Regretted doing this ever since. Bought another one a couple days ago and love the sound. I use this for recording and gigs. I agree with Philip, if you have access to a decent PA system there is no need to kill yourself hauling around tons of equipment.
The Sansamp settings only relate to playing through a clean and flat system. Dirty amps such as a Marshall will alter the sound and cannot give the true sound.
The RBI settings for SVT are, from the 12 o'clock neutral position: Drive -3, Presence +6, Blend full clockwise, Bass +2, Mid -3, Treble +2, XLR & Level normally set around -3 but it varies with volume desired.
Playing my SansAmp RBI through my Marshall bass amp is not as versatile as through my stereo, as the Marshall amp adds the Marshall sound to everything. However, my Marshall gives a sound every bit as interesting as anything you can dial up on the SansAmp RBI. Using the two together gets a sound the RBI or Marshall cannot deliver on its own.
Tech 21 should be able to supply a manual. They are very helpful.
If you plan on using your RBI straight into a PA at a gig, you should be practicing through a clean amp rather than a guitar amp.
Another flaw of the RBI is that it does not have a headphone output. Not a problem if your stereo features a headphone output.
The RBI settings for SVT are, from the 12 o'clock neutral position: Drive -3, Presence +6, Blend full clockwise, Bass +2, Mid -3, Treble +2, XLR & Level normally set around -3 but it varies with volume desired.
Playing my SansAmp RBI through my Marshall bass amp is not as versatile as through my stereo, as the Marshall amp adds the Marshall sound to everything. However, my Marshall gives a sound every bit as interesting as anything you can dial up on the SansAmp RBI. Using the two together gets a sound the RBI or Marshall cannot deliver on its own.
Tech 21 should be able to supply a manual. They are very helpful.
If you plan on using your RBI straight into a PA at a gig, you should be practicing through a clean amp rather than a guitar amp.
Another flaw of the RBI is that it does not have a headphone output. Not a problem if your stereo features a headphone output.
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dano
Hey thanks a million, Dan.
I'll try that setting with my Ampeg B100R ( warm and clean with its FET circuitry) and hopefully make it a "Mini SVT"---something that gives me the SVT sound without over-vibrating my eardrums and disturbing the peace in my neighbourhood, ha!
Philip, thanks also for your valuable inputs.
Yes, my Marshall Super Bass has a strong sweet "Marshall Colour". I'll just leave it alone for that heavenly RIC+Marshall Squire-ish growl.
I'll try that setting with my Ampeg B100R ( warm and clean with its FET circuitry) and hopefully make it a "Mini SVT"---something that gives me the SVT sound without over-vibrating my eardrums and disturbing the peace in my neighbourhood, ha!
Philip, thanks also for your valuable inputs.
Yes, my Marshall Super Bass has a strong sweet "Marshall Colour". I'll just leave it alone for that heavenly RIC+Marshall Squire-ish growl.
Since my AVT20 has tube emulating circuitry, I tried to turn it into a mini-SVT for practice. Even with the Eminence B102 installed, it still has a tone that sounds very different from the SVT setting on the RBI. I never owned a Marshall bass amp before, and nobody I knew used them back in the 70's when I had my Peavey folded horn gut thumper (a real one trick pony). The Ampeg SVT and Acoustic 370 were the hot tickets. Too bad the Tech 21 manual doesn't have a 370 setting. If Marshall bass amps sound like my AVT20/B102 combo, they should have been more popular. It is not as midrangey as a Fender Bassman, but the Marshall midrange is definitely apparent. It is a complex sound and hard to dial up on my RBI. Perhaps my brother can dial it up. I gave up after an hour of trying. No need to, really. I have the Marshall amp. Of course, I don't think Marshall ever put Eminence B102 speakers in their bass amps. Their cast frame manufacture makes them close to an E-V in quality and price. A 2x10 cab loaded with a couple of B102 speakers should give the tone I have if you drive it with an AVT50H 50-watt head. Plus there's a footswitch for channel switching that I don't have. It should make a portable killer bass rig for small gigs, especially with a Bass Compactor and/or Bass Driver DI in front of it. If you need more juice, just use the house PA system.
If anybody has SansAmp RBI settings for an Acoustic 370, I would appreciate it. SVT, 370, Bassman, and my Marshall/Eminence combo tone should cover most of what I want to do. I was surprised how good the 4004L sounded straight into a clean stereo system with the RBI circuitry bypassed. I was playing away and liking the tone before I even noticed the RBI output was inactive! A 4004 player could start out with a small used solid state PA amp (if it has a high impedance and high gain instrument input) and PA cab while waiting to save up money for an RBI or PSA-1 from Tech 21. I wonder how many other 4004 owners have noticed this?
I never saw an RBI go cheap on eBay, so it is probably better just to get a new one. The RBI is the highest rated of all of Tech 21's products if you bother to read the Harmony Central reviews.
If anybody has SansAmp RBI settings for an Acoustic 370, I would appreciate it. SVT, 370, Bassman, and my Marshall/Eminence combo tone should cover most of what I want to do. I was surprised how good the 4004L sounded straight into a clean stereo system with the RBI circuitry bypassed. I was playing away and liking the tone before I even noticed the RBI output was inactive! A 4004 player could start out with a small used solid state PA amp (if it has a high impedance and high gain instrument input) and PA cab while waiting to save up money for an RBI or PSA-1 from Tech 21. I wonder how many other 4004 owners have noticed this?
I never saw an RBI go cheap on eBay, so it is probably better just to get a new one. The RBI is the highest rated of all of Tech 21's products if you bother to read the Harmony Central reviews.
I use both a Bass Driver DI (pedal) and an RBI built into my live rack.
First let me say that in an actual A-B, i still think the Bass Driver sounds slightly better.
But it's nice to have the rackmount (I had a custom rack mount panel built for the Bass Driver) ad the mid-range control on the RBI.
One thing i find DECIDEDLY missing on the RBI is a ground lift... ANY pro quality DI should have one (and I told Tech 21 that, as well). The Bass Driver has one.
Next: i really like what the Tech 21 boxes do to the DI..it lets me add a bit of distortion and tone shaping and it has some actual character, so i give that feed to the front-of-house to mix with the mic'ed cabs and at least i kow they don't have a channel of bass guitar sounding poopy and not like 'me'.
It's a very decent sound.
BUT, it in no way sounds REALLY like the amps it "emulates" anymore than the Line6 or other modelling stuff does.
It's best use is in finding sounds you like, not in pretending it takes the place of something else.
First let me say that in an actual A-B, i still think the Bass Driver sounds slightly better.
But it's nice to have the rackmount (I had a custom rack mount panel built for the Bass Driver) ad the mid-range control on the RBI.
One thing i find DECIDEDLY missing on the RBI is a ground lift... ANY pro quality DI should have one (and I told Tech 21 that, as well). The Bass Driver has one.
Next: i really like what the Tech 21 boxes do to the DI..it lets me add a bit of distortion and tone shaping and it has some actual character, so i give that feed to the front-of-house to mix with the mic'ed cabs and at least i kow they don't have a channel of bass guitar sounding poopy and not like 'me'.
It's a very decent sound.
BUT, it in no way sounds REALLY like the amps it "emulates" anymore than the Line6 or other modelling stuff does.
It's best use is in finding sounds you like, not in pretending it takes the place of something else.
I just got a SABDDI last light to use on a radio interview show where we played a few songs live in the studio. I was going to take my Walter Woods head and use that as a preamp, but after reading about the SABDDI all the time in the FDP I went and got it to see if it was everything people said it was. Well it is very nice for the most part but I feel that the mids are too recessed although that does help bring out the depth of the bass. I also feel that the treble is a bit harsh and metallic sounding, not very hi-fi like but I suppose that is what helps the bass cut through in the mix. Cranked up it does get a bit noisy and comparing it to my Furman PQ-3 that has been slightly modded it doesn't even come close in the fidelity department. The mods on the PQ-3 are the opamps have all been replaced with LM833s and I added a Jensen JT-11-DMCF line output transformer for a high quality balanced out. I will try some recording with the SABDDI before I pass final judgement on it and I will also try using it as a preamp with my Ampeg PB250, bypassing it's own preamp.
I am not going to mod my RBI until the warranty expires, if ever, but those op amp mods are interesting. I will have to agree with William that you can't get the RBI to truly sound JUST like the amp you are trying to emulate. You can, however, capture a lot of the character of a particular amp that will give you a nice tone for a particular type of music. I have no intention of ever going back to a one trick pony amp like my old Peavey folded horn.
A ground lift switch should be easy to install on the RBI. There is extra space by the power switch or on the back panel. I have had no noise problems myself. My B&K ST-202+ amp came with a reversible two prong cord and can adapt itself to whatever is plugged into it as it is electrically floating. Those old B&K amps are just as dependable as they are musically sounding. The price they sometimes sell for on eBay makes them almost a gift. Mine is great for modeling applications.
When I get the best settings on the SansAmp RBI for emulating my modified Marshall bass amp, I will post the settings on the thread for the amp in the Talk To The Toneman section. That will let people decide if it sounds like something they would want to experiment with. It's a shame that Marshall never came out with any bass amps in the AVT series. An AVT50H and the bass cab of your choice is the no-brainer solution.
A ground lift switch should be easy to install on the RBI. There is extra space by the power switch or on the back panel. I have had no noise problems myself. My B&K ST-202+ amp came with a reversible two prong cord and can adapt itself to whatever is plugged into it as it is electrically floating. Those old B&K amps are just as dependable as they are musically sounding. The price they sometimes sell for on eBay makes them almost a gift. Mine is great for modeling applications.
When I get the best settings on the SansAmp RBI for emulating my modified Marshall bass amp, I will post the settings on the thread for the amp in the Talk To The Toneman section. That will let people decide if it sounds like something they would want to experiment with. It's a shame that Marshall never came out with any bass amps in the AVT series. An AVT50H and the bass cab of your choice is the no-brainer solution.
When it comes to emulating, so much is dependant on the cabinets and the room. Isn't it a bummer when you get a great sound in your living room.. go to practice or a club and it sounds terrible.. or sound check sounds great but crowded show time sounds ******..
One essential piece of equipment IMBHO is a bass equalizer.. I have found it very useful to trim out some of the offensive qualities of venue sound. The RBI and others sound great through phones by themselves or in my living room but are really best with the added control of an eq to account for "roominess"... one thing I have started to do is keep a log of all the local clubs that I play and the setting changes necessary for each empty and crowded.
I would be very curious how designers listen to the products to decide what it emulates.. phones, un-coloured amp etc.. and what kind of cabs.. ported, closed, etc.
One essential piece of equipment IMBHO is a bass equalizer.. I have found it very useful to trim out some of the offensive qualities of venue sound. The RBI and others sound great through phones by themselves or in my living room but are really best with the added control of an eq to account for "roominess"... one thing I have started to do is keep a log of all the local clubs that I play and the setting changes necessary for each empty and crowded.
I would be very curious how designers listen to the products to decide what it emulates.. phones, un-coloured amp etc.. and what kind of cabs.. ported, closed, etc.
Acoustic suspension bass is the most accurate from my experience, and gives the smoothest and most extended rolloff below box resonance. Ported (bass reflex) cabs sound less defined and tend to be boomier. Power was expensive in the old days, so acoustic suspension designs were not used in guitar amps. You can put a resistive flow vent in an acoustic suspension design and reduce the size of the cabinet (like in my AVT20 conversion). It gets 110 dB out of a 20W amp and a single 10" B102. New style PA and bass guitar speakers handle lots of power. Musician's Friend had rackmountable Crown Power-Tech amps on sale, with 750WPC @ 4 ohms going for $599.9, 305WPC for $399.99. Other Crown amps were even cheaper. My B&K ST-202+ puts out 300WPC @ 4 ohms and cost me $620 (discount) back in 1991. Two RBI's and a Crown stereo amp would make a formidable bass amp head for "sound shaping" applications. A cab loaded with premium Eminence or Electro-Voice speakers should give a clean output for modeling. Solid state amps offer much better control in the deep bass because of their much higher damping factors. Tube bass amps can put out great sound, but they stamp their sonic coloration on everything that is fed to them. A clean power amp/speaker cab combo should work just as well for guitar as for bass if the correct emulation/modeling circuitry is used ahead of it. The Tech 21 customer rep told me that clean audiophile amps are ideal for modeling applications as they inject less sound of their own on the SansAmp emulation output they are being fed. One of their customers uses McIntosh amps to great effect. You can use a tube amp if you want tube amp warmth in all your emulated sounds.
I'll let you in on a little secret that experienced audiophiles have learned: a single source of bass excites resonant peaks in any particular room. Multiple woofers in separate locations tend to smooth out dips and peaks in the room response. Several small 2x10 or 1x15 cabs spread across the stage should do better than a monster 8x10 cab like a lot of SVT owners use, at least in the deep bass. Save the 8x10 cabs for arena concerts. I'll never own one, as I could stack 2x10 cabs and get the same effect. It also makes transport and setup a lot easier.
I'll let you in on a little secret that experienced audiophiles have learned: a single source of bass excites resonant peaks in any particular room. Multiple woofers in separate locations tend to smooth out dips and peaks in the room response. Several small 2x10 or 1x15 cabs spread across the stage should do better than a monster 8x10 cab like a lot of SVT owners use, at least in the deep bass. Save the 8x10 cabs for arena concerts. I'll never own one, as I could stack 2x10 cabs and get the same effect. It also makes transport and setup a lot easier.
Philco- yes I am toying with that very idea.. two 2x10's or 2x12's... I mostly use an Ampeg 4x10 with horn though I never use the horn (it's switchable) which is fine for the small clubs around Tulsa.. transport is part of the equation too.. I have a 2x15 that rarely gets out just because it is such a drag to move without help.
I am curious though why you don't mention 2x12's .. is there a reason?
I am curious though why you don't mention 2x12's .. is there a reason?
I'm just partial to the 10" Eminence B102. Good price/performance ratio, and efficient. 40 Hz to 9 kHz, so no horn needed and no loss of uppers, can be used for guitar as well if you want a clean sound. The BP102 has lower bass response and less high end response.
The 12" Electro-Voice should work just fine also. I don't want to pay the price. Eminence makes some 12" PA speakers that could be used for bass guitar, but the B102 is advertised as their best all around bass guitar speaker. I use a single B102 in my practice amp, and it is plenty loud in a home or studio environment.
The 12" Electro-Voice should work just fine also. I don't want to pay the price. Eminence makes some 12" PA speakers that could be used for bass guitar, but the B102 is advertised as their best all around bass guitar speaker. I use a single B102 in my practice amp, and it is plenty loud in a home or studio environment.