1964 cream 4001S on U.K. E-Bay

bigbajo60 · Post by **bigbajo60** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:12 am

From what I can see, the treble pickup surround has the lowered/cutaway edges where the strings pass over... wasn't this an '80s development?

motoryeshead · Post by **motoryeshead** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:44 am

I've actually seen this bass up close, its changed owners more than twice in the last year. It was mono, but someone has hacked away with a chisel to make a second jack hole, and added a stereo jackplate from a Jap 4001 copy, note how the seller has not pictured this area. The white refinish is very old and beat up, but I couldnt see any original finish, maybe it was mapleglo, or more likely a bare wood refinish. The routing is very rough, but I cant remember if there were thumbrest holes. There is no way I can see you could accurately date it to '64, it's an old one, but the year is purely speculation, and at 2500 GBP? Naah..

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:46 am

With better pics(and there would HAVE to be much better pics) it wouldn't be hard to tell it from a Squire...

This bass looks like it has the same size fret wire as a 4001CS, which was bigger than the fret wire used Rose-Morris 1999/4001S; or it's been re-fretted at some point.

Without the orig. jack plate, it takes MUCH away from the value. For starts I would want a detailed look at the body cavity routs.....

wints · Post by **wints** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:07 pm

Reading P. Davies comments make one not know whether to laugh or cry about being hacked by a chisel and a japanese copy plate being stuck on...If this an old bass, and it could well be given some of the appointments, one wonders just what were people thinking at the time....But, we,ve all been there before..You lose so much of an instruments history when that jackplate isn,t present. The fret wire does look larger and the nut is obviously newer. It was probably totally gone over at some point and maybe taken back to natural. I find it hard to believe that someone beat up a CS model that bad in 10 or so years...It DOES look old...Lefty,s right,(?!)Routs..We need to see if that old irwin speed bore is present..

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:46 pm

I suspect the treble pickup to be a copy. And did you notice the hex nut on the selector switch? I think that both pickups and the wiring harness on that 4001 came from a Japanese Rick copy.

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:59 am

It does have some '64 parts on it & there is a way you can accurately date it. If it has the old type rods & square heel it would come only from 1964 or earlier & the pickup surround points to the first half of the year. As long as it has those teltale factory routes under the pickguard it would be a 1999 & not a converted 4000.
P Davies, can you tell us what you mean by rough? The old way of routing the channel to the neck pickup cavity was done with a speed bore bit like Andrew says & looks rough but the pickup cavities are clean rectangles. The thumbrest holes sometimes went into the channel so they can be hard to see when the guard is off.
The strap bolts for pickup screws is interesting. They are the same thread size as the the philips head originals & would fit the old aluminium baseplate. I'm having trouble finding a suitable pair for my beast & have thought of doing the same thing.
The cutaways for the strings on the surround are also what you'd expect to see.
Feel free to correct me...

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:03 am

I still think its the real thing. Its just been covered with white and had dodgy parts put on it. Is that so hard to believe? Its a VERY old instrument that has probably been played a ton. Its clearly been refreted - again understandable considering its age, had a new pickguard added and the pickups are clearly fake. But then am I right that the old horseshoes eventually die? Things like the hex nut on the switch, well, maybe the proper one got lost?

If you look closely at the base on it, where the paint is chipped, ity looks darker underneath,,almost like a fireglo finish.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:11 am

The knobs look like they are the wrong position tho.....more like a new 4003

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:25 am

Gerry,
I bought, from my local screw shop, screws identical to the big RIC treble PU mounting screws but with a tiny letter "H" beside the Philip slots.
I can send a pair to you for free if you're interested.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:22 am

Owen, I was thinking exactly the same thing!
I'd also like to see a side view of the headstock, to see about how thick it really is. I believe that the CS/V63 models had headstocks just slightly thicker than the originals....
Still, I think the body/neck could be original, but the pickups look like replacements, and Sergio is probably right about them being some kind of Japanese replacements....

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:28 pm

basically i think its totally legit, but painted ****** white and had a lot of the parts changed due to it being like........39 years old or something,,,,,,,things wear out. The tailpiece, tuners, bridge pickup surround and nameplate look totally right

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 7:09 am

Paul, thanks for the offer but really it's more like I'm not looking hard enough....

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 7:44 am

Gerry,
Try Chris Clayton at www.pickofthericks.com.
He may have and offer them for a reasonable price.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:21 pm

The bass is relisted.
This time by an American seller, with the starting bid of a much lower $1000.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2549523570&category=4713

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:16 am

why are there no bids???

because there is no serial number?

heck it should be worth at least $1000

it looks like it is more like a Chris Squire bass than the reissue ones ...