Scott Walker - The Enigma

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

Thanks again, Roy, I just listened to them. "The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore" is the only one I remember, too, so you know it had some good play in the USA. A very dramatic sound, using all that reverb to great emotional effect...a little uncomfortable to think about his career and all the potential ravages of fame. Who in their right mind would really want to be famous...Scott Walker seems to me a fine and fragile songwriter who just got smacked too hard by celebrity and yes, lost the plot.

But, you know, it is possible for these sorts of talents to re-emerge late in life, and, with or without commercial success, pull off their very best work...

Okay, can't think of an example. But you would think it would be possible.

[dedicated_follower]

The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore will always rate in my favourite ever top ten songs. The power of the music and Scott's wonderful voice make it, to use the American phras, AWESOME.

[admin]

To my way of thinking, The Walker Brothers had three great releases, and Roy has kindly included all of them for our listening pleasure and armchair analysis.

In order of release they appeared in the UK charts as follows.

Love Her - June 1965 - #20
Make It Easy On Your Self - August 1965 - #1
The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - December 1966 - #1

The Walker Brothers has a bit of trouble at the alter in mid June 1966 as they had some fierce competition in the UK, with Elvis Presley's "Crying In The Chapel" among others to contend with.

To my way of thinking, The Walker Brothers were one of groups that ushered in the "male power ballad" at the time and "Love Her" was a first fine attempt. Some may argue that they emulated the style of the Righteous Brothers although clearly they had their own style.

An important distinction between the two was the success that the Righteous Brothers enjoyed in both the UK and the US. While the Walker Brothers seemed to have the chart edge over the Righteous Brothers in the UK, it was always my perception that the latter pulled at the heart strings a bit more. Without a doubt, however, both groups had much to offer. I also found the Righteous Brothers vocals to have slightly better clarity.

So why did The Walker Brothers not succeed in the US? Certainly the British Invasion groups had all groups from the US looking over their shoulder.

I am not sure that "Love Her" was released in the US at all. "Make It Easy On Yourself" was up against "Turn Turn Turn" in the US and of course the British tsunami wave. It may have been a blue "Monday Monday" for "The Sun Ain't Gonna shine Anymore" in the May 1966 release as the Mamas and Papas had a tight hold on the charts at that time in the US.

There is no doubt that Scott Walker has a fantastic voice, however, I consider that the American showing was less successful due to the competition of the day and not to a lack of talent.

It will always be ironic that the British Invasion may have had a stronger adverse impact on their success in the US than the UK. Perhaps those in the UK were looking for something a little different? Roy?

[royclough]

I think in their case here in UK after they hit big with their third release, it was a throwback to the Teen Idol thing, certainly for the young girls, the merseybeat boom was on it's way out and here were two very good looking guys in Scott and John Walker no disrespect to Gary and with their different American accents appealed to the female audience, though whilst I never bought any of their stuff until years later, I did like a lot of the stuff they did.

That is what really spilt them SW did not really like this adulation.

I recall Eric Burdon on Juke Box Jury, a popular show here in UK back then which was a basic concept snippets of new records were played and a celebrity panel made comment.

He commented on Love Her I think it was, stating
"this sort of **** makes me puke" or words to that effect, Animals never in my view appealed to young girl type audience though and whilst he may not have liked their sound, The Walker Brothers did become far more popular than Animals.

[randyz]

Sort of off-topic, but 'Five O'Clock World' was mentioned in this thread. Has anyone else noticed how similar in style and sound it is to Petula Clark's 'I Know A Place'? I haven't checked to see who wrote these songs, but they seem very similar to me.

[admin]

Interesting points, Roy. Thanks for this perspective.

Scott Walker's solo releases are quite different from the Walker Brothers as you have hinted at previously. I find his later releases to be of the sort almost more suited for movies or musicals. Still a great voice but a style that I think moved him away from a chance at success in the charts.

[royclough]

Randy Tony Hatch wrote I Know A Place and some one called Andy Reynolds who went on to be Garth Brook's producer wrote Five O Clock World.

Scott Walker

Peter, his first solo outings were commercial in terms of single releases and even albums to some degree, his first three solo albums all made the top 3 on the album charts.

His 4th solo album though did nothing, a very self indulgent affair and subsequent albums, through the 70's including one called The Moviegoer did nothing.

He has released just 3 albums in the last 23 years, the second called Tilt actually made 27 on the album charts, probably due to a couple of TV promotional slots he did, I feel certain anyone who bought them expecting them to sound like his early solo albums would have been very disappointed.

I included a track from his last album Drift and again this album is more avant garde, if that be the right phrase, than ever.

There is a movie doing the rounds at the moment called 30th Century Man about Scott Walker.

I believe he sees albums he makes now as a art form.

On another forum someone described them as rubbish and stated "I suppose someone likes them" they all miss the point, Scott Walker likes them and frankly I don't think he gives a toss if anyone buys them or not, I certainly would not buy them on the tracks I have heard, music to commit suicide to in my view and a waste of a talent.

[admin]

Roy: "A Lover Loves" is a very good example of the theatrical tone to which I was referring in Walker's later tracks. This song is three minutes and eleven seconds of angst.

I could see it in a play. If you are ever feeling too exuberant or uncomfortably joyful and wish to return to a more serious mood, this is the song for you.

As a musical work it conveys emotion and perhaps the performer has achieved what he has set out to do if this was his goal. It is provocative in a way that many songs are not and in this respect some may consider it has merit. Perhaps it is autobiographical and a more detailed appreciation of his history would give us more insight into the song.

[blue330]

I think Scott 4 didn't sell mainly because the Heavy Rock period was underway, in full swing by 1969 when the record came out. People were just moving on, even though Scott was at the peak of his excellence. It's a great record, and all Scott originals, maybe? In some ways 4 is easier for the uninitiated than the previous 3 records because of its freedom from creepy (if sometimes funny) Jacques Brel songs and the like. Although it doesn't sound quite as nice as the 1st 3 Scott solo records- maybe the studio put in one of those newfangled solid-state consoles or something.

[pc31]

scott records for scott...he is not concerned what we think....i love the later stuff...the man has a unique perspective...almost gothic...did you see the 30th century man??
good show...i have been wondering if joe meek inspired scott any...

[pc31]

ok a bit more than a little gothic...

[pc31]

scott started out rocking...56 this was released
1958 on this one
he sounds like ricky nelson almost...

[royclough]

Ironically The Walker Brothers did not really mean anything over in US. Even though 2 of them were from there. For us Brits and those who remember them


John Walker Now








Scott Walker Now (Painful in my view)





As they were, one of my particular favourites

[ukuser]

For me, there are days when listening only to Scott Walker will do.
Can't begin to put into words how important I think his first four solo LPs are.

[royclough]

Thanks Simon and welcome to this forum, I note you live in my neck of the woods.

As I have written here the first 4 albums were good though the fourth was not a commercial success.

Do you listen to any of his latter day output.