Finding "The Sound"

[admin]

As so many people have written before on numerous sites, learning the lead guitar for a Shadows' number is one thing, but being able to do a convincing job of replicating "the sound" is quite another.

I have listened to a number of your versions of The Shadows' songs Goran and the quality of your sound is first rate.

We have discussed the importance of vibrato, Vox and the Stratocaster in attaining the sound but the board in the recording studio at Abbey Road surely had a significant role to play as well.

With the advent of digital sampling of analog units such as the tape units of Meazzi, Binson, Roland and the like, the Shadows' sound is somewhat easier to attain.

I am wondering what currently available units are most convincing in finding the early Shadows' sound. I see that the Echoes From The Past patches has been quite popular in association with the Alesis Quadraverb Q2 and Q20 and the Yamaha Magic Stomp also seems to use the same patches with the same degree of efficacy.

What are your thoughts?

[goran]

The in my ears most significant part in That Sound is not the echoes, nor the Stratocaster, nor Hanks technique, but the strange compression-like effect which seems to kick in very late, not affecting the start of the note at all and which brings that vibrant surge of sustain which is not at all there on the live recordings I've heard, nor the three performances I've heard live (2x Shadows, 1 x Hank).

But for echoes the Magic stomp with the E.F.T.P. patches or the Shadowsland patches is for the time being very priceworthy. A tape echo is probably even better but I don't think any of them has the possibility of presets which is very handy.

The Q2/20 is best of the digital devices but out of production (as the Magic Stomp, but this is still possible to get)

[royclough]

Whilst clearly I cannot comment on the technical stuff you guys get into I can comment on the sound,I would be interested to hear Goran's views on those artists like himself and groups who perhaps come close.

In the late 70's early 80's I discovered a thriving scene for Shadows type groups in Scandinavia.

A now defunct Swedish label Triola and also Carelia issued a batch of instrumentals CD's.

Their Guitar and Beat series of CD releases was excellent though the beat i.e vocals on the CD's left something to be desired.

Groups like Spacemen, Moonriders, Quivers also influenced by Shadows and Spotnicks to some degree, Lenny Clerwart a fine Shadows style guitarist, but for me two bands come close to that sound, from UK The Rapiers a vastly underrated band and a Swedish group called 1961.

There is also a french guitarist J P Daniel who is a fine exponent of the sound so much so that Hank Marvin invited him to his home in Perth.

[goran]

I have had a lengthy discussion with Ronnie Gustafsson, lead guitarist with "1961", some time ago and he agrees with me that to nail the Shadows sound perfectly, some hitherto unknown studio gadgets were needed.

BTW Clerwall is still active not the least as a composer of instrumentals and all kinds of vocal songs. He played bass in Spacemen.

The Spotnicks' sound is very different from the Shadows' (also Bo Winbergs technique which is very much based upon chord shapes and has a clear influence from country guitar picking)

[wolfgang]

Well, the Abbey Road studio equipment is perfectly described in the book "Recording the Beatles"
by Kevin Ryan and Brian Kehew.
The EMI RS114 limiters were used since 1956,
and since 1959 they also, or additionally used
heavily modified Altec 436B, called RS124.

I know nothing about recording the Shadows, but probably they used the same equipment, the Abbey Road equipment.

[wolfgang]

Goran,
I tried to find Bo Winberg's sound recently (as in Amapola, but without echo and reverb), and come close (I hope) with a small Dynacord MV18 amp from the 60s, (this amp can be very bright in sound) by turning the volume pot of the bridge single coil pickup down to 2/3rd. This gives the high "unloaded" resonance frequency of the pickup not affected by the guitar cord capacity.
I have not analyzed the echo/reverb settings yet,
but it's probably one echo and upon this echo additional reverb.
But this is Spotnicks, not Shadows...

[royclough]

Goran, Lennart Clerwall did play bass on three Spacemen albums,Sandor Hajosi was lead, but Clerwall switched to Lead Guitar for 4 albums.

Also released two solo albums, possibly more, I just have 2.

Have you heard of Peter Korving, Goran he captures the late Shadows sound has released albums under the name Seaside Shadows, another band I admire is Tangent, a Britol group from UK, though I don't think they are active now.

[goran]

Yes I'm aware of Clerwalls' career, great player.

Yes Peter has a great sound but he captures Hank's modern live sound, he has not captured the recorded sound fully, no one has in my opinion! The Burns era sound in particular seems very difficult!

[goran]

Yes Wolfgang,l I use similar methods to achieve the Spotnicks' sound although I really would need another type of amp.

[royclough]

Goran

These guys are pretty good 100% Burns as they say.

http://groups.msn.com/legend/_whatsnew.msnw

[goran]

Yes, I have met Mr David Martin personally and I've heard Legend live and they are very true to the Burns-era performance-wise, but not sound-wise, at least not to my ears (very good anyhow, though). I've not heard any recordings of Legend, though. The few recordings I've heard with David alone does not reflect the Shadows Burns-era sound even if they are very good in every other respect.

[admin]

Wolfgang: Thanks for your reminder of the compression that was used at the time in which the Shadows recorded their earlier work. Surely this equipment played a central role in "the sound" and is a key missing element in our attempt to replicate the early tone.

[wolfgang]

They had a 120 or 240 msec echo, a 120 msec multiple echo and three different echo chambers (reverberation chambers) often used with a 120 msec pre- delay at Abbey Road Studios.