Burns

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:11 am

Peter, you will find more information concerning the origin of Burns guitars here:
http://uk.geocities.com/burnsguitarssince1992/

At the moment there are three lines: the custom elite series manufactured in China, the custom guitars manufactured in England and the club series manufactured in Korea.

The Hank Marvin signature is an instrument of the custom elite series and is manufactured in China - it was introduced in 2004 and never produced anywhere else. Hank Marvin says that it sounds and plays exactly like his original Burns from the 60s - despite being made in China.

Goran: you are certainly far more experienced with playing Shadows tunes than I am and you are certainly much closer to reproducing the Shadows sound, so I take your word for it, although I have my doubts - compression, delays, these are very important factors, I am sure of that, but to me the main factors of a sound are still the player´s hands and the guitar. And I do not believe, that you can get the Hank Marvin tone with a RIC or a Les Paul for example. I have tried it with a RIC and I can assure you that the Strat comes closer.

On the other hand I must admit that I am not attempting to get as close to the Hank Marvin tone as you are, Goran. I just want to be able to get into this direction for my own music, whenever it is appropriate for a song, without having to think too much about compressors or delays. And I have got the feeling that it would be easier for me to get into this direction with the Burns than with a Strat.

Anyway it is nice to read that we both consider the same recording our favorite: "Dance With The Shadows" - truely a great record.

goran · Post by **goran** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:31 am

Peter: Yes all the 2000 in the limited signature reissue series were made in China (or Chorea). Which in itself does not necessarily stand for low quality.

Markus: I´m more prone to believe that the drastic change of sound appearing around ´63 was due to the introduction of the Top Boost AC 30 than to the Burns guitars. And of course to the change in personal taste which all musicians undergo, usually to the dislike of their fans.

Regarding the "Dance with the Shadows" album: I think I have covered all of the tunes (instrumental) on that record except "Big B" - I found it not worthwhile to sequence 78 bars of drum solo...........

Peter: I´m sorry, the delay is caused by some of the necessities of being a house-owner, painting and some construction projects has been considered higher priority than my guitar playing. Guess who is making the priority-list (hint: starting with Mrs.......). But I will try to record as soon as possible!

goran · Post by **goran** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:35 am

And Markus: Much as I love the tunes and the sound of said record, it also marked the point where the Shadows´ popularity started to diminish, possibly because of the lack of material exclusively for guitar. Almost all the songs are covers of vocal hits or evergreens.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:12 pm

Thanks, Goran. I understand completely. It will make a good winter project.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:51 am

No expert like you guys but I think I can clarify that the first track to feature a Burns was The Rise and Fall of Flingel Blunt.

Following albums all featured Burns
Dance With the Shadows
The Sound Of The Shadows
Shadow Music
Jigsaw
From Hank, Bruce, Brian and John
Established 58 (Cliff Richard and The Shadows)
Hank Marvin's self -titled solo album.

Some cite Atlantis as featuring a Burns because of the tonality but in a e-mail response to someone I vaguely know, Hank Marvin has confirmed a Strat was used, suppose he should know!

I gather 30 prototypes were made before Marvin gave his name and approval to one, think I would have given in at about 10.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:56 am

Marvellous, Roy. I appreciate this historical information.

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:28 am

And Markus: Much as I love the tunes and the sound of said record, it also marked the point where the Shadows´ popularity started to diminish (...)

This is what happens to most bands, I think. The only real exception I can think of were The Beatles. Their third record (A Hard Day´s Night) was one of their best, but then they started to develop and got even better. Most bands do not have enough fresh ideas after their third album. Even great bands like The Shadows were no exception - just like The Velvet Underground, Bauhaus, nowadays The Strokes, Coldplay ...

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:15 am

Today I did it. I bought a Burns Hank Marvin Signature.

On Saturday I had gone to my favorite local music store and had bought an American Stratocaster. At home I immediately regretted this. I replaced the 009-042 strings with 010-046 strings, set the guitar up and started playing. Though this American Standard Strat sounded quite good - even better than the Highway One Strat, which is in possession of the school I work for - I was not able to set the strings to a low action without buzzing. What is more I did not like the vibrato at all. Even with an additional spring, the action was far too light. I spent the whole Sunday to experiment with the setup: I did all kinds of things to the individual string saddles, to the neck, to the vibrato ... it did not work. The Strat sounds good, but the playability is in no way close to my Rickenbackers and worse than that of the Highway One.

So I thought, well, I am going to sell the American Standard Strat again, get a Highway One and equip it with better pickups to get a better sound. I thought that I could try that first with the guitar in possession of the school. So I went to a big music store in Cologne this morning (I had a day off), to get a set of Kinman pickups. But before I bought the Kinman pickups, I thought, that it would not be a bad idea to have a look at the Burns Hank Marvin again.

They had a room with three AC30s. I plugged the Burns in and could not believe it. It does not only sound much better than both Strats that I had tested at home - the playability is a dream. Back at home playing the three guitars side by side - the impression is just the same. The Burns seems never to get out of tune, no matter what you do with the vibrato. The vibrato has just the right action for the Hank Marvin stuff - and the neck - though rather clumsy - is fast as hell - with nothing buzzing or getting in your way. What is more, the variety of sounds you can get with the three pickups is much bigger than with a Strat.

I will have to pay the guitar off now within six months - and I do not think that I will ever regret having bought this one - it is just great (except for its looks maybe) - and well, I have got a Fender Strat to sell, now ...

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:35 am

Thanks for the journey in pursuit of your dream Stratocaster Markus. There is nothing quite like the quest for the "stratocaster ideal."

While so many stratocasters look alike, there are many discrepancies in the parts, the materials and the manner in which they are set up. With regard to their vibratos, it is my view that the two-point vibrato is superior to the vintage "wood-screw" arrangement. Also, you will need to have it set up just right if it is going to work well. Locking key winds are also a very big plus in order to keep it in tune.

Finally, the pickups are a key and that is a topic that is probably best left to a thread of its own.

I am interested in hearing more about the Burns once you have had more time to get accustomed to it.

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:49 am

Peter, my impression was that the vintage "woodscrew" vibrato (of the Highway One) is superior to the two-point vibrato (of the Am. Strat), if you want to play vintage music with it

... The two-point vibrato changes the pitch, if you just look at it. You might be able to use it for modern lead-guitar playing a la Steve Vai, but for the Hank Marvin stuff it is horrible in my opinion. The Fender vintage vibrato is better, but the Burns vibrato is the best vibrato I have ever seen or played - for this kind of music ...

To be honest I was never very fond of the Fender Stratocaster despite the fact that I like a lot of music, that was recorded with it: music by Hank Marvin, The Beatles, George Harrison, Rory Gallagher, nowadays The Arctic Monkeys a.s.o. But I never felt really comfortable playing one, although I missed the typical Strat tone for my own music sometimes. This is why I thought that I should finally "give in" and get one now.

Nevertheless I will not think much about the Stratocaster anymore now. I am already certain that the Burns is "the best Strat"

for me - I will report more impressions later on.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:27 pm

Thanks Markus. Try looking away from the vibrato! Just kidding.

I find that the two-point works very smoothly provided you have the right tension on it and it is not set up too high.

I am, nonetheless, intrigued by your comment about the Burn's vibrato.

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:25 am

I have recorded 5 new versions of Sleepwalk with a 325V59, my 650AVH, the Burns, the Highway One Strat and the American Strat to compare the 5 guitars and posted a little guessing-game on the Rickenbacker forum.

I also tried to write a review on the Harmony Central pages about the Burns, but it does not seem to get published - for some reason my reviews never seem to get published by them - I suppose I am not "critical" enough - as if I would bother to write a review about a guitar that I would not like to give a 10 in almost every category

... (The German review is not mine, that was someone else.)

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:16 pm

Markus: Why not give us a link to your recordings?

sir_andrew_of_left_coast · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:24 pm

Yeah... and perhaps you can make it so that we have to guess (in this thread or a new thread) which guitar is being used.

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:17 am

Okay, I have opened a new thread concerning this. It seems to be more difficult than I thought. On the Rickenbacker company forum, there have not been many replies - and those two who answered did not recognize more than two of the guitars correctly.