Bandmember's costs in a band?

[chuck_king]

I've never known a musician, much less a group of musicians, meticulous and anal enough about finances to come up with a truly equitable way to handle the "joint gear" situation. Just about all such situations end up with either (a) someone getting cheated, or (b) someone feeling like they got cheated. The only possible reason for doing it is if it is literally the only way the band can get a P.A. or something similar that it absolutely needs to function. In that case it still won't end well, but I can see making that trade-off in the interest of having a band at all. Obviously, this does not apply to your jazz band, where the drummer has adequate gear.

[admin]

While not a perfect arrangement, renting the PA works reasonably well. It provides an up to date system over the years, band members take good care of the rental equipment and there is no argument about dividing up expenses when the group breaks up.

[whojamfan]

I've never known a musician, much less a group of musicians, meticulous and anal enough about finances to come up with a truly equitable way to handle the "joint gear" situation. Just about all such situations end up with either (a) someone getting cheated, or (b) someone feeling like they got cheated. The only possible reason for doing it is if it is literally the only way the band can get a P.A. or something similar that it absolutely needs to function. In that case it still won't end well, but I can see making that trade-off in the interest of having a band at all. Obviously, this does not apply to your jazz band, where the drummer has adequate gear.

I know this situation all too well, as many groups have asked me to chip in on stuff that is "money lost" when the group splits. Fact of life, at some point, all bands break up. Usually it is not under good circumstances, and the whining over who gets what can turn real ugly, real quick. Those that want to be cashed out are usually dealing with remaining members who can't make that happen, and the gear gets consigned or pawned, and everybody takes a big loss that just adds to the tension. This is a very good way to kill friendships that may have been life long.

As a musician, what did you pay to be able to be in a band? 1 or more very good guitars, a nice amp, some effects,cables, strap, mic, stands, etc. Let's just say you come to the table with 3 grand worth of gear if you added it all up. Bass players and keyboard players more or less, depending on what they have, and any kind of good drum set and cymbals is going to run you $1,500 on up for an "ok" one. I highly advise every player buy themselves a powered monitor so they can have full control over their sound level on stage. Even some really big stages don't have enough monitors to go around, and needing only a passive signal line to make it work, they can be a lifesaver. Also, being powered, the put no strain on your PA power wise. Another plus of having these is that you can use them at coffee house gigs as a mini PA to sing and run your instrument through. There are lots of things you can use these for.

Singers, who may or may not even own their own microphone, see all of your good gear, and start spending your money on what their vision is. All of the sudden, you're bothered about chipping in for a PA and lights, and whatever whims this individual has on how to make you the "next big thing." The musicians who spent the money on their pro gear, seem to forget that this person has come to the table with nothing more than a voice and a lot of ideas how to seperate you from money you will never see again. The whole thing is a shame, in my opinion, because it happens everyday in too many groups.

Singers, need to have a PA, at least an 8 channel box head(min 450 watts) and 2 15" cabs with horns. You can get high quality set ups like this for under $1,500 new, and less used. This will enable you to rehease comfortably, and play any gigs short of a really big club that 300 screaming drunks will be at. These places almost always have their own sound systems, and sound guy. Right before you go on, buy the sound guy a drink and you'll have the best sound of the night.

The singer should also have a tree or 2 of lights. Par 64s aren't necessary, but you can easily talk the singer in to buying some, as they are the"star". Singers also need to be employed, and have a car, hopefully one that can move their gear around.

Just to put this in to perspective, a new PA, cabling, a Shure 58, and 2 light trees with controller, will cost the singer less than a Rick 360/12, Les Paul, good custom shop Strat, most high end basses, various industry standard amplifiers, or something comparable to a DW 5 piece kit with cymbals of equal quality and even cheap gig bag covers to haul them in.

Singers get away with murder, and they shouldn't. You worked hard, put in the time, and put up the dough for your gear, so why shouldn't they?

Of course, if you are actually doing paid gigs, split the money one more way, and make that the band fund. This is something that can come in handy in a variety of situations, including getting new gear should you get more popular and find you need it. Also, merchandise and product(CDs) need to be paid for somehow, and the band fund is the best way to not feel the hit on that one.

As far as electronic drums go for a jazz band, isn't that like using bright pink BC Rich guitars? While fine instruments, who's gonna really take you seriously? Miking a drum kit in a small venue only robs the bass of its precious low end character, and the guitar of its high end clarity. Bigger stages with pro sound people know how to translate this to the audience properly, but this is negative overkill in a small clubs. The attraction of hearing jazz live is the intimacy of it. It's not like blasting out AC-DC covers at a sports bar, you don't need to cut over the top of screaming drunks. Any jazz drummer worth their salt knows about how dynamics affect the groove, and sheer volume is what will ruin a fluid interplay. Since you aren't going to be playing volumes that are not much louder than talking level, all instrumentation should be able to be heard with the upmost of clarity. If your singer complains they can't hear everything perfectly, have them see a doctor for an earwax removal treatment.

[winston]

Mike I agree with your views on this subject 100%. That is very good advice and coming from a pro no less.

[paologregorio]

Yep. +1 Mike!

[whojamfan]

Can ya tell I hate singers-haha-unfortunately, I can't sing well so I have to deal with these yo-yos. I will say, a good singer who is a professional is worth his/her weight in gold(as long as they leave their "signifigant other" at home). I love getting musical direcdtion from someone who wouldn't know an A chord from a .....................well you get it

[squirefan01]

Yes, thanks Mike and all! Today, I verified with rhythm guitarist in the band that I did not misunderstand the leader when he mentioned about chipping in for drums. We'll see how this plays out in the coming weeks. I would love it if he would let the drummer at least try out the acoustic set and I'll keep pushing for that. The mic'ing seems like just an excuse to me.

The bad timing part is that we've been looking for months for a good horn player who can play sax, flute, clarinet. We just had a great guy start last week and we had an awesome practice with him. Hopefully this timing with the drums will not blow this up now that we have a complete unit again!

Thanks again,

Greg

[FretlessOnly]

Singers get away with murder, and they shouldn't. You worked hard, put in the time, and put up the dough for your gear, so why shouldn't they?

Not to mention that when they show up at the door they can't find the key and don't know when to come in.

But I agree entirely.

And to the original poster; stand fast. I know it may hurt to hear it, but don't ever let another person make you pay for someone else's stuff. That's their responsibility. You'd be better off finding another situation.

[whojamfan]

Singers get away with murder, and they shouldn't. You worked hard, put in the time, and put up the dough for your gear, so why shouldn't they?

Not to mention that when they show up at the door they can't find the key and don't know when to come in

"are you guys sure you're playing it the same way as last time?" -singers

[squirefan01]

Just to follow up, the band leader of my band got the message from us that we were not going to pay for new drums. So tonight I got to practice and the electronic kit that belonged to the old drummer was gone and the leader was cabling up this old tiny Roland electronic kit. It sounds pretty chincy but he's still set on using an electronic kit. The drummer even brought his acoustic set tonight which looks pretty nice but the leader wouldn't even let him set it up. So the tone of practice (in more than one way) was a bit sour overall.

But at least the leader got the message and gave up his quest for a new kit. I just hope the drummer doesn't quit now as he didn't look to excited to play this current electronic set.

[jps]

I wouldn't blame him for leaving. That bandleader sure is a piece of work!

[jingle_jangle]

Leaders need flexibility, by definition, to accommodate the members' personalities and get the best out of everybody. He should leave his large but narrow ego at the door. Otherwise he risks being called a dick and worse...

[winston]

Paul W nailed it as far as I am concerned.

[wayang]

A lot of good points have been made here, and it's an interesting discussion. My two cents...first, I don't like the idea of a 'band leader'. I know, there have been many great bands that operate that way, but that scene's not for me. Democracy can be a pain in the (I gotta watch it here, I got censored earlier this week for this one..) 'rear end' (boy, that feels stupid...I sound like a boy scout from Utah), but it's preferable to a dictatorship. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the 'bandleader' in question here is absolutely corrupt...bad decisions and the...cojones...to make them stick. A jazz band with an electronic kit? And the bass player's supposed to kick in money for this? Sorry man, but your bandleader's a 'rear end' hole. Maybe you, the drummer and his perfectly good kit and the new horn guy need to 'take a meeting' away from the rehearsal space...you might have the makings of a really fine democracy without 'Kim Jong Il', or 'The Decider', or whatever he features himself.

Now then...there's been some loose talk about drummers in this thread...I've played bass, guitar and drums in a lot of bands, and drumming is by far the heaviest work load...not just the playing, but the setting up and tearing down, loading and unloading, etc...when I play a drumming gig, I have to start a couple of hours before the rest of the band, humping my gear into the jeep...I have to get to the gig at least a half hour before anyone else to be considered 'on time', and I'm still dragging very heavy things through my front door long after everyone else is home in bed. Drummers are not respected in this culture as they should be, and without them, you'd all be singing 'Kumbya' around a campfire, and the girls would have nothing to dance to...

There, I've said it...

[winston]

Dane with an attitude like yours (today at least ) I would be happy to have you as the drummer in my band..............assuming you as good as I believe you are. There's no sense in bashing drummers btw.........they always carry sticks.