Rose Morris 1993 Values

[k43rover]

As far as I can see from researching the internet, there have been no original '60's Rose Morris model 1993's sold openly in the past year or so (and for that matter I couldn't see any sales of the very limited run of 1993 reissues which I understand were made).

I fully appreciate that these are rare and ultra-desirable models and as such there is no way of easily setting a realistic market value (obviously they will be worth what someone is prepared to pay at any given point in time) but I would still be interested to get views from the knowledgable community here as to what sort of price range both an original '60's 1993 would command today and also the reissued version.....

[wints]

Eddie,

Read here for the most recent events...

viewtopic.php?p=635554#p635554

[k43rover]

Thanks Andrew - I saw that thread earlier and it represents an interesting story of how a successful trade took place based on a personal interaction between the people involved. But in my original post I was thinking more of views on a straightforward normal open commercial transaction through eBay/dealer etc

[collin]

Thanks Andrew - I saw that thread earlier and it represents an interesting story of how a successful trade took place based on a personal interaction between the people involved. But in my original post I was thinking more of views on a straightforward normal open commercial transaction through eBay/dealer etc

Yep, even having gone through the whole deal, I have no idea what the true market value of an unmodified RM1993 is worth. Graham would know much better than myself.

I know CME sold one over a year ago----last priced I checked with them was $28,000 (and it sold soon thereafter), which was down from the initial asking price of $35K. Granted, this was during the tail end of the bubble prices and from a known expensive shop.

I'd say a very clean one is probably still under or around $20K. The hardest part is actually finding one, not paying for it.

[k43rover]

Many thanks for that input Collin and congratulations on getting that guitar - it is stunningly beautiful! I have been looking at the website of the dealer you mention and they seem to have a really good selection of beautiful vintage Ricks - especially the Fireglo OS. But, and please correct me if I am wrong in this, the perception I have from reading various internet posts from US based people who have done business with them is that a) their prices are right at the top(/over the top?) even for mint guitars and b) how can I put this, they can be "interesting" to deal/negotiate with, and c) as a result presumably of a and b their stock tends to hang around for a looooooooooooong time!....... Maybe that's all unfair perception, but as I live in England, and obviously can't readily inspect a guitar in the US, it's important to be 100% confident with any distance purchase I enter into.

[libratune]

The hardest part is actually finding one, not paying for it.

Even harder is finding one and not being able to pay for it!

I agree that if you had to pick a target price for what a 1993 would sell for today, $20K seems like the right figure to start with.

[collin]

The hardest part is actually finding one, not paying for it.

Even harder is finding one and not being able to pay for it!

I agree that if you had to pick a target price for what a 1993 would sell for today, $20K seems like the right figure to start with.

True, very true.

This is one of those models (along with the RM1999) that i'd like to see sell on an OPEN eBay auction some day. While some open auctions would expose the prices are lower than expected, models like the 1999 and 1993 might indicate higher figures than expected as they rarely come up for sale at all....and usually sell behind closed doors when they do. Who knows?

[k43rover]

Bang on Collin - this was the exact point of my original post; I can find no transparant market data on the price for one of these guitars; until something like a genuine eBay auction (i.e without the usual shill bidding) sets some sort of current benchmark it's a finger in the air exercise....

[collin]

until something like a genuine eBay auction (i.e without the usual shill bidding) sets some sort of current benchmark it's a finger in the air exercise....

.....or until people start throwing unusually high offers at myself, Ron, Graham or anybody else with a 1993 until we change our minds.
(note: kidding...I ain't selling ).

[k43rover]

I will have to break open my piggy bank and see what is left (not much after the 1998 I think)!!

But it is surprising that at least one or two are not on the market with reasonable frequency; I know these guitars are super rare and desirable but if the numbers in Smith's book are to believed (!!) there were at least 25 exported to Rose Morris in England in 1964 and another 75 in 1965. Even taking account of a low survival rate for those purchased by Mr Townsend, you would have thought a few more would have popped up somewhere along the line...

[collin]

100 guitars made 45+ years ago (with at least 4-6 known demolished)......its amazing any would come up for sale at any time.

I mean, how often do original '58-'60 Gibson Les Paul 'Bursts show up for sale? Often one or two at any given time....then dry spells.....and they made over 2000 of those.

[wints]

Eddie, check out Bjorn's site, and 1993 registry...if you have not already!
http://www.rickbeat.com/

The 1993's are similar to the RM1999 basses, (of which documented examples are in the mid 20's), a relatively small percentage, given the original production. One might come to the conclusion there are a few more hidden under the bed's here and there...

Graham G might have the last actual $, or GBP/Yen price for a 1993.

Come on down you Sidcup Son!

[k43rover]

I can see where you are coming from Collin, but I'm just working off the Rickenbacker Rose Morris numbers. Taking Smith's base export numbers again (I know, I know...I should just be looking at the pretty pictures but) as an example he quotes 126 1998's shipped to England in 1964 and 50 in 1965 - so total of 176 of that model in those 2 years i.e 1.76 times the 100 1993 shipments for those same 2 years. Based on the recent internet trawl I did, I saw around 3 or 4 of the 1998's from those 2 years which sold on the open market over the past 18 months....just on a simple pro rata basis that would equate to one or two of the 1993's coming up over the same period - but that just doesn't seem to happen. I can't extrapolate backwards on 1998 sales patterns as the data oviously becomes more difficult to recover from the internet as time elapses but assuming the last couple of years are representative (?) for whatever reason it seems like the 1993's are like the proverbial rockin' horse whereas relatively speaking the 1998's do come to open market more regularly in a way that the relative export numbers would not explain.......

[collin]

I can see where you are coming from Collin, but I'm just working off the Rickenbacker Rose Morris numbers. Taking Smith's base export numbers again (I know, I know...I should just be looking at the pretty pictures but) as an example he quotes 126 1998's shipped to England in 1964 and 50 in 1965 - so total of 176 of that model in those 2 years i.e 1.76 times the 100 1993 shipments for those same 2 years. Based on the recent internet trawl I did, I saw around 3 or 4 of the 1998's from those 2 years which sold on the open market over the past 18 months....just on a simple pro rata basis that would equate to one or two of the 1993's coming up over the same period - but that just doesn't seem to happen. I can't extrapolate backwards on 1998 sales patterns as the data oviously becomes more difficult to recover from the internet as time elapses but assuming the last couple of years are representative (?) for whatever reason it seems like the 1993's are like the proverbial rockin' horse whereas relatively speaking the 1998's do come to open market more regularly in a way that the relative export numbers would not explain.......

I think my head just blew up in confusion.



....I don't see a whole lot of any RM models for sale, anywhere. I'm not surprised at all, still...

[k43rover]

Okay - I think this one has been beaten to death now! Here's hopin' one pops out out of the woodwork soon...