US V UK 17

[royclough]

In December 6, James Ray had a number 22 in US charts with this, his only top 40 entry.
In May 63 it was a top 3 record in UK for Freddie and The Dreamers

[sowhat]

Hmm. Cannot say i loved James Ray's version, but... what Freddie & Co did to the song is beyond, ahem, beyond anything (imho).
So my vote goes to James Ray.

[its-sylviab]

I don't like either version, but having to choose one of them, I'll go for James Ray, but just because Freddie Garrity always irritated me with all that daft jumping around he did and I never used to like his songs or his voice!

Sylvia

[JeffZ]

Hmmm...I have a childhood soft spot for Freddie and the Dreamers, as they were a perfect group for a 5 year old just discovering music... I'll go with Freddie here, but mainly because I think the harmonica works better on the song than the backing on James Ray's version. I also have a thing for songs in 3/4 time, though there's an unspoken rule in the music business that it's a bad idea to have singles in waltz tempo; not many couples waltz these days.

I have it in the back of my mind that I read somewhere that The Beatles used to play this in the old Cavern Club days, do you know if they did Roy?

[chriscurtisfan]

I don't like either version, but having to choose one of them, I'll go for James Ray, but just because Freddie Garrity always irritated me with all that daft jumping around he did and I never used to like his songs or his voice!

Sylvia

Everything Sylvia said -- almost Ditto.

Freddy was a bit too silly for a Searchers-obsessed female like me. HOWEVER, I'm giving the vote to him because a good friend met Freddy and said he was a very nice man! So, he wins due to nice-ness.

[royclough]

Jeff, The Beatles did do If You etc and supposedly Freddie and the Dreaners copied their version.

[dbailey62]

Hmm. Cannot say i loved James Ray's version, but... what Freddie & Co did to the song is beyond, ahem, beyond anything (imho).
So my vote goes to James Ray.

I agree. All Freddie's version is missing is a tuba player to totally dismember Rudy Clark's much more soulful version. It was all just a bit too light for me.

That said, I absolutely love "Do The Freddy" especially the horns which sadly are lacking from this live version. Freddy could sing!


Ah, here is the horn section! And the female background vocalists are doing a nice job too. Great drums as well. I wonder who played the lead guitar on this recording.

[kiramdear]

I was prepared to vote down James Ray's version based solely on the presence of a tuba, but Freddy's version is so all-around lacking that James gets my vote after all.

[nick_allen]

Close-run thing. Freddie's version improves drastically if you just listen, but don't watch the video... But I'm going to vote for James Ray anyway. After all, if he could inspire the Beatles...
By the way, guitar on "Do The Freddie"? I'd guess Big Jim (Sullivan) or Little Jim (Page).

[admin]

Freddie seemed to push the envelope for most who listened to him in the day save perhaps the very young who could easily embrace his enthusiasm which I always felt rivaled a children's television show.

Nonetheless, a few of his releases had catchy melodies and in concert with light fun his releases have stood the test of time, most notably I'm Telling You Now. The orchestration and arrangement in this song was also responsible in large part for its success. I agree with David that the arrangement and the tone and range of his voice were strong points. I Understand is also a "must listen." He could sing, I am sorry that he did not take advantage of his pipes as he might have.

With regard to If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody, I think that Jeff has hit the nail on the head. I concur that that most artists are walking on thin ice when attempting to hold the attention of listeners in three-quarter time with a ballad. The waltz takes 1960s songs to the edge of the cliff and in Freddie's case he has landed on the rocks and a good many listeners I suspect wish he would have been washed out to sea. This timing raises If You Gotta Make A Fool of Somebody to the level of the absurd and the fun that may be gained by a one time antic wears exceedingly thin when the observer realizes that Freddie's playful expressiveness is less of a theatrical performance and more likely at the core of an eccentric personality.

There is a point where fun meets annoyance and I believe Freddie has found it. One has to imagine that his band mates felt more than a bit peculiar putting up with Freddie and I would be most interested in hearing their impressions. I embrace the comments of Sylvia and Cheri who have had their fill of Freddie's peculiar performances. It is "beyond anything" Sheena and I laughed aloud at your comment. NIck has at least given us a coping mechanism, don't look.

But still as human nature would have it most of us probably ask "just what is it that lies beneath the surface of the peformance we see?" I suspect that the answers that we provide allow us to either embrace the music or distance ourselves from it. Is it the melody and the lyrics that matter or is it all about the performance at the end of the day? Does the singer make the song or the song make the singer?

On this occasion I will side with James Ray although his version also has the three-quarter time obstacle to overcome and I think it also fails to impress. At times I found myself almost breaking into song and singing "What the world needs now.." but I digress in referring to a song in which 3/4 time works well. Kira, Ray's version does suffer from "tubaculosis."

I cannot resist in offering my favourite version of If You Gotta Make a Fool of Somebody and strangely enough it is by someone who I would least expect to have recorded it. I offer it here for your pleasure. I suspect you may enjoy it and I would love to hear you impressions of this version too after you answer Roy's good question.

Thanks to Roy for keeping this battle of music cultures going.

[royclough]

Excellent analysis and welcome back.

Noone's version, which I used in a cover me thing I did, was taken from a 1982 album One Of The Glory Boys, never officailly released on CD I believe.

Don't want to start posting more versions as the topic then becomes a sort of BOTV (may reprive that using youtube ) but check out two verions on there one by Timi Yuro who I would never have thought of as recording that song and a reggage version by a band called The Symulators.

I have a version released in 80s by a group called Night which was quite good too.

[chriscurtisfan]

Pete -- I would NEVER have guessed that NOISE was Peter Noone. Me thinks I just don't like the song. Because I love Peter Noone.

I enjoyed your analysis of Freddy -- and your question of does the song make the singer or does the singer make the song?

Speaking for myself, and back in the day of being a 12 y.o. pre-teen who had recently discovered grown men -- (boys never appealed to me; too immature, that's why they call them boys!!) -- I needed to see good looking grown men, dressed nicely, singing a tune with a good melody, using sincere body language. Good sense of humor, but not ridiculous, please and thank you! Using the Searchers as my example, they could provide that entire package the best. Thus, if I like the singer(s) I will try to find something good in whatever music they/he/she are singing.

I actually DID enjoy Freddy's music -- but that mental image of his "Do The Freddy" dance -- just never could be deleted from my brain. (It's still there; I could Do the Freddy and I never even tried nor will I). Don't we all wish we had a button we could use to delete certain useless things from our brains and make way for good stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to provide that fascinating answer and for proving that even Peter Noone put out some painfully harsh "music". There was no coping mechanism for that one -- except to hit the pause button -- in fact, I will begrudgingly say that Freddy's version is a bit more tolerable. James Ray -- if it's got a Tuba -- I'm leaving the room.

[royclough]

Thanks again to those who voted, James Ray won this with 75% of the vote both on this forum and another.