Pickup mods for a 360/12 into a 370/12 ?

[BILLYC58]

Hi everyone I have a 360/12 afg and ive been debateing about adding a middle pickup and replaceing the highgains with toasters.I do like the sound of the highgains but I love the vintage look im wondering if this is a good idea or not.Will adding a middle pickup decrease the value and does the middle pickup make that much of a diffrence in sound ?

Thanks
Billy

[grazioso]

mod does decrease the value but who cares if that's what you want? if you plan to sell it don't mod it

adding the third pickup can change the sound a lot depending on what you're gonna do with it, e.g. you can get it hooked up with push pull knob - so you can choose when you turn it on, than if you add another push pull you can do in and out of phase sound too...you can reverse the magnet on the pickup to get "strat" humcanceled sound with the out of phase mod (you will need to disconnect the cover grounding of the pickup for that) etc...before you go toaster route make sure that you like them 'cause if you change them (3 of them) it will set you back some serious $$$

[BILLYC58]

Thank you for the reply I dont plan on selling it I really like it I wanted a 370/12 but I couldent find a fireglo finish i liked then one nite I was one ebay and found a 360/12 in amber fireglo it is really pretty and I new I had to have it.I figured i could get the middle pickup added later on.I figure if im going to switch to the toaster pickups that would be the best time to do it Im just not shure how much of a dirrfence it would make.I like the push poll knob idea ill talk to the guy who works on my guitars about that.I plan on makeing these changes over the summer so this will give me time to see if its a good idea or not.
Thanks
Billy

[Clint]

As long as it's well done, quality work, I don't see it decreasing the value. COY Amber Fireglo? Three Toasters? For a Rickenbacker player, what's not to like?

[BILLYC58]

The guy who works on my guitars does great work he's been working on guitars for years and just thinking about it with 3 pickups it will look cool/cooler.
Billy

[teb]

I have two that I've done that to (a 360/12WB and a 330/12). In my opinion, those mods are down the list a bit in terms of capturing "the sound". This would be the order of mods or changes I would make, in order of effectiveness:

(1) Get a JangleBox. Nothing else has such a big effect on the sound.
(2) Switch to flats. The Thomastic Infeld Jazz Flats are pretty hard to beat in terms of sound, playability and long life. The rather dull tone and lack of twang of the primary strings brings out the chime of the octave strings.
(3) Start using a very thin pick and a light touch. For flat picks, I finally settled on Dunlop .46 mm nylon.

This will get you pretty darned close with no mods to the guitar. A large portion of the sound is also generated by picking through the chords and chord-to-chord transitions, not strumming. This is pretty important, as strumming a twelve generates a full sound, but one that tends to be rather feature-less.
(4) Switch to toasters - It can be done, and toasters are great pickups, but to my ears they don't make a huge difference in the sound.
(5) Add a middle pickup - but only if you have a plan to do something "different" with it, because just adding one into the system doesn't seem to do much.

I have three toasters on the 360/370 and a toaster neck pickup and two high-gains modified to take toaster covers on the 330/340. There is some difference to the sound between the two pickup types, but it's not particularly drastic, and I think it's hard to say that one is really "better" than the other. I do generally like the sound of the toasters better, but after going through the first three steps above, I think you will find switching pickups may not get you an awful lot of additional bang for your buck. From a mystique and cosmetic point of view though, toasters are clear winners (just don't expect to be able to tell the difference easily with the lights off).

I found the same to be true on the addition of the middle pickup. It's not a drastic sound change, and it certainly isn't required in order to get fantastic sound out of the guitar. I tried all sorts of stock and non-stock wiring plans with mine, and most of them would not have justified the addition. I finally settled on running the middle pickups alone, on their own circuit which can be run to a different channel, track or effects box to modify the overall sound. It is handy to have at times, but again, not at all critical for the vast majority of the stuff that I play and record. So while you may notice some differences in the sound after adding another pickup and doing some toaster-izing, it well may not be nearly as much of a difference as you were anticipating, and in terms of the cost and hassle of doing the mods, the value may be somewhat questionable compared to simply doing #1, #2 and #3 above and modifying your playing style. You also want to make sure that you're comfortable picking in a fairly small space between the pickups with three of them present. It's not particularly hard to get used to, but does seem a bit cramped at first, compared to a two-pickup model.

Sound clips - most of these are just using the standard neck/bridge, 5-knob Rickenbacker system with the middle pickup turned off. They all use the JangleBox, TI Jazz Flats, and picking through the chords using the thin nylon flatpick. There really isn't a single typical strum anywhere, in any of them.
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... amples.mp3

[BILLYC58]

Thanks for the info and audio clips so the middle pickup really doesent make that muck of a diffrence its more of a cosmetic thing ?
I use only thin pics they have always been easyier for me the toaster pickups I want for the look I like the vintage look.So the janglebox must be very important I keep reading about them alot on rickenbacker forums.

Billy

[grazioso]

Thanks for the info and audio clips so the middle pickup really doesent make that muck of a diffrence its more of a cosmetic thing ?
I use only thin pics they have always been easyier for me the toaster pickups I want for the look I like the vintage look.So the janglebox must be very important I keep reading about them alot on rickenbacker forums.

Billy

the middle pickup will change the sound a lot if it is wired out of phase or reversed for humcanceling + that quack of strat. both of those effects are far more audible with high gain type of pickup than with toaster. the toater will leave more space under the strings to play though - especially with three piskups being squeezed there....

[BILLYC58]

I hope I can make up my mind on what to do If the middle pickup will make it sound more unique then maybe I should have it installed.
Billy

[krick]

Billy,

It's good to see you posting here.

I thought you were saving your $ for something else with 3 pickups.

[BILLYC58]

Hi Kevin Im saveing I havent bought anything fun/wasteing my money ive put myself on a very strict budget.Ive been wondering about these mods for my 360/12 so I thought id ask to give myself sometime to make up my mind and learn more before I do anything I wont do any pickup changes until the summer.That other something with the 3 pickups is all I think about 24/7.
Billy

[Clint]

Start using a very thin pick and a light touch...A large portion of the sound is also generated by picking through the chords and chord-to-chord transitions, not strumming.

Everything in teb's post is spot on, great advice. For me, these two points were key to my coming to terms with the Ric 12 string.

[BILLYC58]

I think im going to just keep it a 2 pickup guitar but with the toasters thank you everyone for all help.
Billy

[jps]

Good move!

[jimk]

Good move!

+1
JimK