Some Fretless Questions

[Ashgray]

Hi all

Having bought my first Rick in 1974, at age 16, and regrettably sold it some years later, I've given up the habit since then of buying custom build instruments (including a six-string fretless) and have come "full circle" by recently buying two Ricks - a 4001 V63 and a 4001/4003 fretless - both are superb instruments and sound just great. Makes me wonder how I ever did without one! I do have a few questions about the fretless though.

I said 24001/4003 above as I really am not sure which model it is. The body shape, pickguard, and pups are 4003 style. However, the truss rod cover states "Made in USA, Model 4001". A guy in the States from whom I'm trying to buy a mod-free thumb rest isn't sure either, as the measurements are different from the centres of the two screws at the top of the pickguard - 85mm on the fretless and 95mm on the V63.

I've posted a few shots below to illustrate - any advice would be most welcome:

On a separate point, I do love the sounds of the vintage pups on the V63, particularly the warmth of the toaster - whats the general view about the wisdom (or otherwise) of replacing the 4003 style pups on my fretless for these?

Ash

[iiipopes]

Have you run the serial number through the aplet on the RIC forum to see what year it is? That will tell. In the meantime, I'd go with the truss rod cover - 4001.

[Ashgray]

Yep - the serial number shows the bass was manufactured in 1982, but I must admit, I wasn't aware that Rickenbacker made 4001 fretless basses in 1982?

And I'm not entirely convinced that the truss rod cover is the original one.

Ash

[sloop_john_b]

Yep - the serial number shows the bass was manufactured in 1982, but I must admit, I wasn't aware that Rickenbacker made 4001 fretless basses in 1982?

Ash

Earliest that I can recall is '68 or '69.

[Ashgray]

Thank John - that's helpful

Ash

[woodyng]

On a separate point, I do love the sounds of the vintage pups on the V63, particularly the warmth of the toaster - whats the general view about the wisdom (or otherwise) of replacing the 4003 style pups on my fretless for these?

Ash[/quote]
First of all,congrats on your purchases,and welcome to the RRF. I am currently looking to try out a fretless Ric myself. Your white Ric is a beauty.(i have a white '74 4000,thats yellowed quite a bit compared to yours)
On the subject of different pickups for the fretless,i believe member Cassius will have some good info there,involving using toasters and even an Hb1. Yoo-hoo!?
It is probably hard to tell with the white finish,but the main physical difference in the 4001 is that it would have had a 3 piece neck,as opposed to the 4003's "onesie". Look for a subtle line in the middle of the neck/body. The center piece of wood is narrow,maybe about 1/4".

[bassduke49]

Generally, the period from 1980 to 1985 saw sales of both 4001 and 4003 basses. Specifically, 4003 basses from this period had the usual "hairpin" truss rods installed "upside down" with the adjusting nuts at the body end of the truss channels accessible in the neck-pickup cavity. This is usually accompanied by the split pickguard, making that access a bit easier. But there are some with one-piece pickguards. The quickest way to determine the truss-rod setup in a bass from this period is to peek underneath the truss-rod cover (Rickenbacker nameplate); if you have two squared-off channels in the headstock and no nuts visible, it is a 4003. If you have a rounded triangle cavity with the rods and adjustment nuts plainly visible, it is a 4001.

Most likely, it is truly a 4001FL. I think RIC had leftover stock or unfulfilled orders for 4001FLs into the mid-'80s. Once they were filled, they started making the 4003FL.

The "new" truss-rod system wasn't introduced until late 1985 or early 1986. The new rod system is easy to identify; no split pickguard and nuts visible on BOTH ends of the rods - fixed acorn nuts in recesses in the body end of the neck, adjuster nuts returned to the headstock ends.

The tuners were standard for the period and referred to as "reverse" Klusons. Some basses of the period had the closed-back Grovers. The now-standard open-backed, German-made Schaller tuners with the embossed Rickenbacker names appeared in 1985.

[jps]

On a separate point, I do love the sounds of the vintage pups on the V63, particularly the warmth of the toaster - whats the general view about the wisdom (or otherwise) of replacing the 4003 style pups on my fretless for these?

Ash

Toasters in a fretless sound great, IMHO.

[FretlessOnly]

I have toasters in the neck position of two FLs; a 4001 and a 4003. I really like the roundness of the sound, but I like the bite of the highgain in the bridge position as a contrast and compliment.

[Ashgray]

Thanks for all the advice guys - everyone I've spoken with or who's posts I've read appears to favour a toaster in the neck position, so I've ordered one.

Next question - once I fit the toaster, would its output be compatible with that from the existing hi-gain pup in the bridge position, or should I also consider replacing that with a horseshoe?

[jps]

Thanks for all the advice guys - everyone I've spoken with or who's posts I've read appears to favour a toaster in the neck position, so I've ordered one.

Next question - once I fit the toaster, would its output be compatible with that from the existing hi-gain pup in the bridge position, or should I also consider replacing that with a horseshoe?

[ilan]

A white fretless. Like I needed more GAS right now.

[FretlessOnly]

Next question - once I fit the toaster, would its output be compatible with that from the existing hi-gain pup in the bridge position, or should I also consider replacing that with a horseshoe?

I find the high-gain and the toaster to blend fine. The outputs aren't identical, but very compatible to my ears. The issue with the reissue HS is that the output is uneven from string to string. Perhaps an original HS would not be, but my experience with the RIHS was not a positive one.

[doctorwho]

Next question - once I fit the toaster, would its output be compatible with that from the existing hi-gain pup in the bridge position, or should I also consider replacing that with a horseshoe?

I find the high-gain and the toaster to blend fine. The outputs aren't identical, but very compatible to my ears. The issue with the reissue HS is that the output is uneven from string to string. Perhaps an original HS would not be, but my experience with the RIHS was not a positive one.

The 4003S/5 models have a neck toaster with a bridge high-gain, and the combination sounds great.

4003S/5 Blackstar

BTW, my 4000FL BG dates to 1977.

[Kiddwad57]

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!