Roger and Marty

[jwargowski]

Promises to be a great show - I saw both of them separately at the Stagecoach festival earlier this year. Marty is a monster and plays Clarance's original tele, just as well, if not better than Clarance did. The backing band, including Kenny Vaughan is phenomenal. Looks like Roger will be playing electric, which is always a treat.
http://arts.pepperdine.edu/performances ... stuart.htm

[dbailey62]

Promises to be a great show - I saw both of them separately at the Stagecoach festival earlier this year. Marty is a monster and plays Clarance's original tele, just as well, if not better than Clarance did. The backing band, including Kenny Vaughan is phenomenal. Looks like Roger will be playing electric, which is always a treat.
http://arts.pepperdine.edu/performances ... stuart.htm

Here's a pretty good example of what to expect. With Marty channelling Clarence through Clarence's Telecaster, well, what can you say. If you really love the Clarence era Byrds, this is a dream come true.

[beatbyrd]

I just got back from this concert. Front row center. I had mixed feelings about the evening. First of all, I was surprised at how great Marty and his band are: tight vocals and some stellar playing (Marty and Kenny are both excellent soloists). Roger played the JG 370 RM seen in the above videos. They played a lot of Byrds songs and the harmonies provided by Marty and his band were spot on perfect. They sounded very much like the Byrds. Now the downside..... Roger sounded the least like a Byrd. Yes, his lead vocals still sound a lot like the originals. I was really bummed about the Rick, though. That's the signature sound of the original band. That 370 might as well have been a cheap Strat copy. It sounded like he was only using the neck pickup through a bass amp. No cut, no highs, no jangle whatsoever. Marty used the B-bender to provide the clear bright highs on songs like R&R star, Feel a whole lot better, Spaceman, Turn X3, etc..

Roger came and went a few times. The audience (which was mixed Marty/Roger fans) enjoyed the Byrds songs a lot. But the real applause/ovations came when it was just Marty and his band, kicking butt. This was the first night of the combined group, so there were a few missed verses, coming in at the wrong times, signals used to end the tunes, and so forth that a 'band with a new guy' goes through. Marty seems to be a gracious pro and helped pump Roger during the concert; leading the applause at times and looking impressed with the Rick solos that could barely be heard. Roger seemed to enjoy playing with a real band again, but needs to spend more time with his 370, instead of the Martin 7 string. He was very rusty when playing the 12 and better when playing the Martin. The solo for Feel a whole lot better was pretty grim in terms of missed/choked notes (based on what I could hear of it). I was 8 to 10 feet away from both Marty and Roger and could see what they were playing.

Roger's wife and I have apparently gone from friends to enemies. I had no say in that decision. I won't ever see his live show again, but I would definitely go see Marty and his band again. Sorry, Byrds fans. For me, after 5 McGuinn shows, the dream is over. They're not getting better. I'll stick to the pre-1993 recorded Byrds/McGuinn music from now on.

Next show for me is Tommy Emmanuel in January. Third time and I'm really looking forward to it.

[jwargowski]

I must have been right behind you - row D seat 19. I think your review is spot on. Not a whole lot to ad - I've only seen Roger play acoustic up until now, and his voice has always been strong. Seemed like he wasn't used to the volume and musicianship of this band. I was shocked he was using a Roland cube amp - hopefully Marty's appreciation of vintage gear will rub off on him (though it looked like Marty & Kenny were playing through a reissue silver face Deluxe and silver face Princeton - far too shiny to be vintage.) I was cutting Roger some slack for first night jitters - hopefully he'll get better as the short tour progresses. Love Mary and the Superlatives, and will see them when ever they are in a 90 mile radius. Having seen them before, I was totally prepared for and eagerly anticipated the Honky Tonk and country surf - I think it threw the pop era Byrds fans off a bit, but I was eating it up. Still, they played enough of the hits to keep the casual fan happy. Very glad I caught this show, and if your a Sweetheart of the Rodeo era Byrds fan, despite it's short comings, you really should not miss this show if it comes near you.

[Byrdfan1948]

Hello Beatbyrd, Tom, I read your comments and they actually inspired me to finally join this forum. So this is my first post. I have been a loyal Byrds and Roger fan from the first day I heard MTM way back, in the mid sixties. Having said that, unfortunately I agree with all of your post, as it relates to Roger these days. No need to talk about Marty as he is clearly in a different league, maybe even from a different planet altogether.

I've probably been to a dozen of Roger's solo shows over the last 10- 15 years. At first I found them to be very good. To me Roger had never seemed totally comfortable on stage, but over time I guess something had changed and he now was. Of course he would after a show take the time to meet his adoring fans, talk with us, and sign autographs. He was actually friendly!! But you can only listen to the same few stories so many times. I was willing to keep doing that as long as I got to hear the 12 string Ric. or 12 string Martin. But over the last 4 or 5 years it seems Roger plays about 80% of the time on that awful 7 string Martin. Simply not what I am paying my money to hear. To me it sounds exactly like a 12 string guitar that is missing 5 strings.

I realize that is Roger's choice, so it's a choice I am forced to accept. I am sure even he can sense the excitement from the audience when he even glances at the unused 12 string Ric and Martin, sitting near him, more as a props, or a reminder of better days, than something to now be played. So his decision to use the 7 string Martin so much seems to be a decision that saddens more than just me.

Clearly, while certainly not in the same league as the top guitar players out there, he is still an accomplished player. But to me on the 12 string he is an Icon. On anything else just another singer, guitar player.

You mentioned your experience with his wife. I have always found her to be very friendly, however I do sense she may have a lot to do with the changes we both notice. Roger no longer meets with the fans after the shows. Years ago he was happy to autograph my pick guard for me. Last show I went to two years ago when I asked his wife if he could freshen it up for me, I got a, "No Way", but she quickly told me that if I wanted his autograph for $15 or so I could still get it on this CCD........ She clearly understood that I wanted it where he once put it on my pick guard, not on some CD of sea shanty tunes I never heard of, that other people wrote. It was clear her NO was final, so I immediately left both hurt, and angry, before I said something I might have latter regretted. I guess all my ticket price and time were worth to them was I being satisfied to hear the same tunes and stories I have heard so many times before, played on a guitar I didn't want to hear it on Hey but once again that is their decision and I accept it.

Bottom line I like you have decided it's time for me to move on. I'd rather keep my money and not attend a show only to be disappointed. I'll always be a Roger fan but I have come to the conclusion that the best way for me to do that is to recall the greatness what once was, and not risk those memories that against what now is.

All The Best Al

[beatbyrd]

Welcome to the RRF, Al.

I have been to a number of concerts recently where artists from 'way back then' have been featured. A good portion of the audience is typically the white hair (or no hair) crowd. They seem to have the disposable income and probably want to reconnect with their youth in some way, by attending the show of an artist that they enjoyed back in the day. I suppose that they generally have the bar set fairly low for the artist. Because they have slowed down a bit over the years, it's only natural to assume that their favorite artist has also slowed down. Perhaps many of the people attending these shows are not musicians and don't listen that critically to what is being played. That's fine and those folks will mostly leave the show with feelings that the artist was still terrific, despite the years that have gone by.

IMO, George Harrison and Jim McGuinn were the two major reasons for the initial popularity of the Rickenbacker 12 string guitar. And, between the two of them, the Byrds' 12 string sound has become the iconic standard, in terms of influencing bands that followed. That's Roger's legacy. Not his voice. Not his songwriting, Not his reluctant stage presence.

Don't get me wrong.... when Marty's band played Byrds songs, they sounded far better than the Byrds ever did (recorded or live). That was a thrill to see and hear. And Roger's voice sounded typically thin, but still competent on those songs. The only thing missing was the very sound that defined the early Byrds recordings - the jangle and chime of the Rick 12. It was mixed way down and muddy in the mix. I didn't think he was playing it very well. Marty and guitarist Kenny V were both providing plenty of energy with their Teles and the audience enjoyed the Byrds tunes very much. The casual listeners were thrilled.

My disappointment was due to the fact that all Roger was really adding was his vocal. And even that sort of stood out, due to Roger's thin voice in contrast with the 4 competent, dynamic singers in Marty's band. My main gripe though - I really needed to hear that 370 RM being used as intended in early Byrds material. Playing-wise and tone-wise. I plan to see Marty Stuart and his Fabulous Superlatives perform whenever they are playing in the area. They were exceptionally good.

Sorry if this upsets any Byrds/McGuinn fans. Tom

[jps]

...over the last 4 or 5 years it seems Roger plays about 80% of the time on that awful 7 string Martin. Simply not what I am paying my money to hear. To me it sounds exactly like a 12 string guitar that is missing 5 strings.

All The Best Al

Welcome, Al!

Maybe your family business can help provide Roger with the strings he's missing?

[Byrdfan1948]

Thanks for the welcome Jeff, Well the last name is correct, but unfortunatly a different family owns that business you refer to. However if the reason Roger plays that 7 string so much in his shows instead of his 12 stirngs is because he is having trouble finding sets of 12 strings for his guitars I would be happy to provide him with however many sets he needs for any shows I would attend!! Al

[Byrdfan1948]

Thanks for the welcome as well, Tom,

I agree with your comment about many people not listening critically to what is being played. In fact I would say I am typically one of them. Having played many years in bands, and solo myself, I certainly know that some gigs you have it, some gigs you don't. Obviously at the level of the real pros like Roger the on days far out number the off days. So a few missed notes here or there, or some work around's for the more challenging leads typically never bother me.

My disappointment in Roger's current shows is not the least rooted in any possible slowing down of any of his skills. It's the virtually total lack of signature iconic 12 string sound you mention.

You nailed it. That is Roger's legacy. Certainly not his song writing, nor dynamic stage presence. People like me, and I assume you, are paying to hear that sound. That is why 40 years after the last Byrds iteration flew the coop I/we are still Byrds/Roger fans.

In fact I am sure that if that iconic sound were never part of the original MTM recording it's very likely I never would have become a dedicated Byrds fan in the first place. Certainly Roger would never have become a hero for me either, since it was he on his 12 string Ric that was providing that sound. So while I may not be listening critically to the playing, I am critically listening to what I am missing. Take away the 12 string sound and what is missing is what I came for.

As much as I know that any show that includes Marty and his band is a show worth going to, I really have no interest in watching Roger jam with a first class band if the iconic 12 string sound is not present. It seems from your experience it was missing.

Of course having said all that I also realize that perhaps at this stage in Roger's long career he is finally trying to carve a new spot for himself in the world of popular music as original members Crosby and Hillman have beyond being just Roger McGuinn of The Byrds. If so at least for me he should have done that years ago as they did. But for me since he never really did move on from his Byrds past, it's a bit too late.

Al