Over the past several years,I have successively tried 1)the original Janglebox, 2) the JB2 and 3) the "import" silver one. Now maybe it is just me, but I NEVER got the sound I heard on the website of Craig T. Fall playing through a JB, no matter how patient I was was in trying different tweaking. I have a '94 Mapleglo 360 12 with the "hot" toasters, which i thought would not be an issue since Craig playa an electric 12 with humbuckers (deep mids). The amp is a re-tubed and bench tested CRATE 50 watt club combo with 2 12" speakers and EL 84s and 12 AX7s.
All I consistently got was noise, feedback, and brittle treble, but never that nice sitar-like, swirling drone like on Craig's clip of John Riley on the Website. I don't doubt that the product works, but I was triply disappointed. I even spoke with the owner and he could not give me a good solution. Any tips out there?
The closest I have gotten to a JB sound is running through a VOX 50 watt hybrid (channel 1- all tube) with drive on 1 o'clock, running through a BOSS EH-2 ENHANCER which can be tweaked to "pull" the treble through the "mud" of a straight amp sound. I know many of you have had no problems with the JB, but mine all sounded like a screechingly bad treble booster. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
and a Blessed new Year,
Donnell
Questions about the Janglebox
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Interesting. Only thing I can tell you is that Mr. Fall is using an Ibanez 12 string, which I believe has Gibson style humbuckers on it. (Confirmation requested on the Ibanez PUs.) If I'm right, that will make quite a bit of difference.
Does your Rick have toasters? Reason I ask is because mine has the stock hi-gains. And I can get something approximating "My Back Pages."
The setting I have come to favor on my JB1 is with both Gain & Attack knobs at straight up 12:00, and the selector switch in the middle or "Normal" position. I set the volume and tone controls on my amp accordingly.
I think I might lose the BOSS EH-2 ENHANCER.
JimK
Does your Rick have toasters? Reason I ask is because mine has the stock hi-gains. And I can get something approximating "My Back Pages."
The setting I have come to favor on my JB1 is with both Gain & Attack knobs at straight up 12:00, and the selector switch in the middle or "Normal" position. I set the volume and tone controls on my amp accordingly.
I think I might lose the BOSS EH-2 ENHANCER.
JimK
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
As your Ric has the "hot" toasters, I'd recommend that you install flat wound strings that may take the brittle out of it.That's a common fix that many mambers here have done.
My 370-12 RM needed them to deaden the tone and nail the Byrds tones.Both with the internal gizmo, or thru a Jangler.
My 370-12 RM needed them to deaden the tone and nail the Byrds tones.Both with the internal gizmo, or thru a Jangler.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Thank you for the replies. The information definitely gives me something to consider.
Cheers,
Donnell
Cheers,
Donnell
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Recording with the Janglebox is a different experience then playing live. The sound clips on the JB website are recorded direct into a recording console so no amp being used. This changes things considerably.
You need to find a happy medium tone wise on your amp and the Janglebox. Also, flat wound strings do help to tame the high end a bit, it also increases the "jangle" because the octave strings have more clarity.
You need to find a happy medium tone wise on your amp and the Janglebox. Also, flat wound strings do help to tame the high end a bit, it also increases the "jangle" because the octave strings have more clarity.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
+ 1!!!vjf1968 wrote:Recording with the Janglebox is a different experience then playing live. The sound clips on the JB website are recorded direct into a recording console so no amp being used. This changes things considerably.
You need to find a happy medium tone wise on your amp and the Janglebox. Also, flat wound strings do help to tame the high end a bit, it also increases the "jangle" because the octave strings have more clarity.
Vincent is right on the mark on all three points! By all means, get yourself a set of TI Flats (Pick of the Ricks in Lindenwold, NJ, assembles and sells them). They'll tame the harshness and increase your jangle quotient at the same time. They'll also last a lot longer than just about any other string set.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Donnell,
I forgot to ask one crucial question: Does your 1994 360/12 have the .047 bridge pickup cap? When I first got my 360/12c63, which had the cap installed, I was getting a very harsh, brittle, treble-heavy sound. My JangleBox JB2 only made things worse. It wasn't until after I had the cap removed (and replaced the stock roundwound strings with TI flats) that I was able to get a decent sound out of the guitar. So, if you do have the cap installed, I would seriously consider having it removed; it's so easy, you could probably do the job yourself.
It sounds like there's a kink in your system other than your effects rig. I wish you the best of luck in getting the proper sound out of your JangleBox pedals.
Robert
I forgot to ask one crucial question: Does your 1994 360/12 have the .047 bridge pickup cap? When I first got my 360/12c63, which had the cap installed, I was getting a very harsh, brittle, treble-heavy sound. My JangleBox JB2 only made things worse. It wasn't until after I had the cap removed (and replaced the stock roundwound strings with TI flats) that I was able to get a decent sound out of the guitar. So, if you do have the cap installed, I would seriously consider having it removed; it's so easy, you could probably do the job yourself.
It sounds like there's a kink in your system other than your effects rig. I wish you the best of luck in getting the proper sound out of your JangleBox pedals.
Robert
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
If you do get the Thomastik Infeld flat wounds be sure that you put the bottom strings on the post and make the first turn before clipping the string. If you clip the string to length before putting it on the post the string will unwind and be useless. So you have to take your time. You will find that the guitar will intonate better and the strings will last a good while. Just a word, the TI flats went up in price but the Curt Mangan 12 string sets from Pick Of The Ricks are $14Folkie wrote:+ 1!!!vjf1968 wrote:Recording with the Janglebox is a different experience then playing live. The sound clips on the JB website are recorded direct into a recording console so no amp being used. This changes things considerably.
You need to find a happy medium tone wise on your amp and the Janglebox. Also, flat wound strings do help to tame the high end a bit, it also increases the "jangle" because the octave strings have more clarity.
Vincent is right on the mark on all three points! By all means, get yourself a set of TI Flats (Pick of the Ricks in Lindenwold, NJ, assembles and sells them). They'll tame the harshness and increase your jangle quotient at the same time. They'll also last a lot longer than just about any other string set.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
If you do get the Thomastik Infeld flat wounds be sure that you put the bottom strings on the post and make the first turn before clipping the string. If you clip the string to length before putting it on the post the string will unwind and be useless. So you have to take your time. You will find that the guitar will intonate better and the strings will last a good while. Just a word, the TI flats went up in price but the Curt Mangan 12 string sets from Pick Of The Ricks are $14Folkie wrote:+ 1!!!vjf1968 wrote:Recording with the Janglebox is a different experience then playing live. The sound clips on the JB website are recorded direct into a recording console so no amp being used. This changes things considerably.
You need to find a happy medium tone wise on your amp and the Janglebox. Also, flat wound strings do help to tame the high end a bit, it also increases the "jangle" because the octave strings have more clarity.
Vincent is right on the mark on all three points! By all means, get yourself a set of TI Flats (Pick of the Ricks in Lindenwold, NJ, assembles and sells them). They'll tame the harshness and increase your jangle quotient at the same time. They'll also last a lot longer than just about any other string set.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
The TI Flats are pricey, but they'll last a very long time if you install them properly. And the difference in tone from rounds to flats is very dramatic. Not to mention that the flats eliminate a lot of annoying rattles and finger-squeaks.
I would highly recommend having an experienced tech put them on your guitar, as the slotted headstock and perpendicular tuners can be tricky, and the strings are expensive enough that you don't want to run into any of the problems Vincent warned you about.
Once the strings have been installed and stretched properly, I think you'll notice worlds of difference in your sound.
Please ask any other questions you see fit.
Good luck!
Robert
I would highly recommend having an experienced tech put them on your guitar, as the slotted headstock and perpendicular tuners can be tricky, and the strings are expensive enough that you don't want to run into any of the problems Vincent warned you about.
Once the strings have been installed and stretched properly, I think you'll notice worlds of difference in your sound.
Please ask any other questions you see fit.
Good luck!
Robert
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
The TI flats from Pick Of The Ricks have the same tension as the strings that are put on at the factory, so if you have been sticking with the Rickenbacker set 95404 you should be fine and not need to adjust anything.
Tools needed-string winder, capo, needle nose pliers, wire cutters, a decent tuner (I'm using a Peterson Strobe HD), time.
I was told by Chris from Pick Of The Ricks to work from the inside strings out, one at a time since I have the trapeze tailpiece on my 660/12.
Remove the bridge cover.
If you have the "R" tailpiece and are not afraid of removing all the strings (don't worry about the neck, it's made of maple so you shouldn't have to worry about the truss rods unless you are changing gauges) I would install the low and high "E" strings to stabilize the tailpiece. Or you can use the capo to hold tension on the string as you thread the string through the post through post. I would start with the "octave" strings first. And remember that the regular "G" string goes on the slotted tuner and the octave goes on the regular tuner.
Once you get the string around the post and make the first wind then you can trim the string. This is easier on the regular tuners. On the slotted tuners you can use the needle nose pliers and carefully pull the "octave" string through the post without pricking yourself.
Do all the rest of the stuff you would normally do when changing strings, like pulling the strings and getting them in tune, ect. Just take your time, at close to $50 a pack you better.
You will discover a few things: better intonation, better tuning, vintage sound, more representation from the octave strings, less wear on your frets and they last longer than round wound strings. With the tone you are obviously going to have some time to adjust to the different sound.
Tools needed-string winder, capo, needle nose pliers, wire cutters, a decent tuner (I'm using a Peterson Strobe HD), time.
I was told by Chris from Pick Of The Ricks to work from the inside strings out, one at a time since I have the trapeze tailpiece on my 660/12.
Remove the bridge cover.
If you have the "R" tailpiece and are not afraid of removing all the strings (don't worry about the neck, it's made of maple so you shouldn't have to worry about the truss rods unless you are changing gauges) I would install the low and high "E" strings to stabilize the tailpiece. Or you can use the capo to hold tension on the string as you thread the string through the post through post. I would start with the "octave" strings first. And remember that the regular "G" string goes on the slotted tuner and the octave goes on the regular tuner.
Once you get the string around the post and make the first wind then you can trim the string. This is easier on the regular tuners. On the slotted tuners you can use the needle nose pliers and carefully pull the "octave" string through the post without pricking yourself.
Do all the rest of the stuff you would normally do when changing strings, like pulling the strings and getting them in tune, ect. Just take your time, at close to $50 a pack you better.
You will discover a few things: better intonation, better tuning, vintage sound, more representation from the octave strings, less wear on your frets and they last longer than round wound strings. With the tone you are obviously going to have some time to adjust to the different sound.
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Hi all, C T Fall here (Stiglet, an odd cover!)..
Mind if I "Chime" in here? The old Ibanez 12-string electric that I use for these demos always sounded quite dull to me (pre-Janglebox) so I had some EMG active pickups put in. I had an idea that this might 'liven' them up. It did this of course, but it was a lot more power than I needed, so when I first got the JB I had the pickups split, then had to dial the output down to get the desired results. I was totally shocked when I plugged into the first JB1, as I had NO idea that I had the ability to turn this heavy, cumbersome brick of a guitar into something that sounded so light and tight! My point here is that any guitar I plug into a JB takes on it's own unique musical persona, which is fantastic, but searching for the elusive "Jangle" can take some serious tweaking (duh).. Personally, I like to use both pickups; as the "boost" function gain switch (that was added when I had the active pickups put in) on the guitar adds a mountain of unwanted power, I usually dial that down to about half. I always split each pickup to find the brightest setting, as too much mid-range starts to make it sound more like a six string. A Jangle needs "air", and with some careful tweaking I can usually find the sweet spot that sounds good to me. Perhaps you are just putting too much signal to the JB, as it certainly does seem to get darker. Every single Rickenbacker 12 I have used with the JB has a completely different sound; had one come in last year, a solid-body, and the sound that the JB1 gave it was fantastic, but it was in no way the Jangle that one might think of in the classic McGuinn sense, but it was spectacular in it's own right. As mentioned once, I had a chance to grill Terry Melcher on how they got the the Mr. Tambourine Man sound, and he basically said "Not sure, a few Pultec EQ's. a few LA-2A's".. I mean, McGuinn himself was pretty much in the dark about his own tone till he met Steve Lasko! Steve changed everything, and I honestly believe he single handedly brought back that sound. I owe him a great deal of thanks for this.
My best advice would be to start with your brightest tone, split the pickup if possible, dial the gain back out of the guitar, as it does not seem to help the Jangle, it tends to get a bit thick. REMEMBER THAT I USE SOME DELAY AND A TOUCH OF CHORUS ON THE DEMOS: usually a split delay in the 250-300 millisecond area, one goes to the left, one to the right. I add a touch of chorus to spread it out even more, but not too much. This might be the "Swirling" sound that you need, Donnell...
PS - I have been experimenting with the new JB3, simply fantastic. I am getting some new and wonderful tones..Cheers, ctf
Mind if I "Chime" in here? The old Ibanez 12-string electric that I use for these demos always sounded quite dull to me (pre-Janglebox) so I had some EMG active pickups put in. I had an idea that this might 'liven' them up. It did this of course, but it was a lot more power than I needed, so when I first got the JB I had the pickups split, then had to dial the output down to get the desired results. I was totally shocked when I plugged into the first JB1, as I had NO idea that I had the ability to turn this heavy, cumbersome brick of a guitar into something that sounded so light and tight! My point here is that any guitar I plug into a JB takes on it's own unique musical persona, which is fantastic, but searching for the elusive "Jangle" can take some serious tweaking (duh).. Personally, I like to use both pickups; as the "boost" function gain switch (that was added when I had the active pickups put in) on the guitar adds a mountain of unwanted power, I usually dial that down to about half. I always split each pickup to find the brightest setting, as too much mid-range starts to make it sound more like a six string. A Jangle needs "air", and with some careful tweaking I can usually find the sweet spot that sounds good to me. Perhaps you are just putting too much signal to the JB, as it certainly does seem to get darker. Every single Rickenbacker 12 I have used with the JB has a completely different sound; had one come in last year, a solid-body, and the sound that the JB1 gave it was fantastic, but it was in no way the Jangle that one might think of in the classic McGuinn sense, but it was spectacular in it's own right. As mentioned once, I had a chance to grill Terry Melcher on how they got the the Mr. Tambourine Man sound, and he basically said "Not sure, a few Pultec EQ's. a few LA-2A's".. I mean, McGuinn himself was pretty much in the dark about his own tone till he met Steve Lasko! Steve changed everything, and I honestly believe he single handedly brought back that sound. I owe him a great deal of thanks for this.
My best advice would be to start with your brightest tone, split the pickup if possible, dial the gain back out of the guitar, as it does not seem to help the Jangle, it tends to get a bit thick. REMEMBER THAT I USE SOME DELAY AND A TOUCH OF CHORUS ON THE DEMOS: usually a split delay in the 250-300 millisecond area, one goes to the left, one to the right. I add a touch of chorus to spread it out even more, but not too much. This might be the "Swirling" sound that you need, Donnell...
PS - I have been experimenting with the new JB3, simply fantastic. I am getting some new and wonderful tones..Cheers, ctf
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
One more thing if you are installing your own strings. When doing a string in one of the slotted tuners, wind your wraps around the tuner's shaft toward the outside of the string hole in the tuner (toward the outside edges of the headstock). It makes for less interference from the strings bending over the edges of the truss rod cover.
- Attachments
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Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Craig (Mr. Hall),
What a nice surprise to have you "chime" in with such wisdom from the source of those beautiful sound clips. I did suspect that your Ibanez was direct to the board, and maybe I was expecting too much in terms of "plug in and play". i just swapped my old 50 watt tube Crate for a pristine (I know, tubes sound best) 65 watt Fender Ultimate Chorus 2X12 amp and already I can hear more interesting string responses through the chorus effect. The clean channel, even though it is solid state, and the drive channel for that matter, seem to have a nice "tubist" gristle to the sound and good hang time. The drive channel certainly seems much more tube like than the drive channel on my son's $1200 Vox 50 watt hybrid (tube on clean-digital on dirty) amp.
Years ago (I still have it) I mistakenly bought a 100 watt SS Rogue amp from Musicians Friend for the cheap ($200) power. Bad choice. Both channels sounded awful and more awful. But it has volume to spare and would be best suited as am emergency vocal amp.
Anyway, the Fender seems to have made vast improvements in SS and the chorus is a new dimension for me (always heard about Roger and his Roland 120).
Thank you so much for clarifying much of the JB "mystique". It is encouraging to know that even a pro has to tweak things to encourage the right jangle. You and the other posters are terrific. By the way, your JOHN RILEY clip is to die for!!
Cheers,
Donnell
What a nice surprise to have you "chime" in with such wisdom from the source of those beautiful sound clips. I did suspect that your Ibanez was direct to the board, and maybe I was expecting too much in terms of "plug in and play". i just swapped my old 50 watt tube Crate for a pristine (I know, tubes sound best) 65 watt Fender Ultimate Chorus 2X12 amp and already I can hear more interesting string responses through the chorus effect. The clean channel, even though it is solid state, and the drive channel for that matter, seem to have a nice "tubist" gristle to the sound and good hang time. The drive channel certainly seems much more tube like than the drive channel on my son's $1200 Vox 50 watt hybrid (tube on clean-digital on dirty) amp.
Years ago (I still have it) I mistakenly bought a 100 watt SS Rogue amp from Musicians Friend for the cheap ($200) power. Bad choice. Both channels sounded awful and more awful. But it has volume to spare and would be best suited as am emergency vocal amp.
Anyway, the Fender seems to have made vast improvements in SS and the chorus is a new dimension for me (always heard about Roger and his Roland 120).
Thank you so much for clarifying much of the JB "mystique". It is encouraging to know that even a pro has to tweak things to encourage the right jangle. You and the other posters are terrific. By the way, your JOHN RILEY clip is to die for!!
Cheers,
Donnell
Re: Questions about the Janglebox
Yes, I can see how the issue about playing through an amp as opposed to direct could be a real problem. The JB creates such eq on it's own that I generally do not do my demos through an amp, BUT, my next one will be, as I can see the extra challenge here...! Stay tuned, as I am doing a video now for the new JB3, and will post it here. Cheers, ctf