NGD - 1961 New Capri/OS 365 - info needed for restoration

[Knave101]

I just picked up what looks to be a 1961 365 (the jack plate is missing) in the double bound post Capri body style. (Pictures to come once I get the guitar and can take them, sorry for not having them yet).

The guitar is missing a lot of parts, but what it does still have is interesting--the gold truss rod cover with the logo and Grover Sta-tite tuners that look to be original.

The tuners being Sta-tite interest me as in the registry on this site, only the last of the Capris have the Grovers; there is no example of the New Capri/OS with Grovers, only Klusons.

I would be grateful for help with these questions:

1. What style of toaster pickups are correct for that year....flat bottom, pole bottom or one of each (and where in the latter case).

2. Sadly, there have been routs. Does anyone have a pic of the correct body without pickups to help with the restoration so I can try to match the restoration woodwork as close as possible?

3. What should the pickup impedance be?

4. Who would you recommend to create a gold pickguard pickguard that will match the existing holes, and have the correct gold tone to match the trust rod cover?

5) I am not even sure this guitar should be a 365 and not a 360 (I expect the location of the holes for the tailpiece or vibrato will confirm this). I can't find any OS 360s in the 1961 registry, only the full bodies. Was there no New Capri/OS 360 in 1961?

6) (Again the guitar when I get it should confirm) will I be needing a Rick-o-sound or a mono jack plate set up?

7) Has anyone seen a New Capri/OS 360/5 with original Grovers?

Anything else anyone thinks would be helpful, I would be appreciative.

[collin]

Great score, John - congrats! Would love to check out photos if you have them.

Answers to some of your questions below:

1.) I briefly owned a '61 365 "New Capri" and the two pickups were long-pole toasters in each position.
2.) I'll try to dig up a photo - I have a few. It looks like any 60's 300-series guitar with long-pole toasters in both positions.
3.) 7.5K , give-or-take.
4.) Personally, I would make my own of 1/8" plexi (that's what the original was made of), and have the gold TRC color-matched as close as possible. The original gold was done with a Crescent bronzing powder that was added to clear coat and sprayed onto the TRC & pickguard. It's not readily available stuff these days, but you can get colors that are close via aerosol.
5.) I've never seen one - but "never say never" with Rickenbackers. Check the tail-end of the guitar. If there are four small holes around the large strap button hole, then it was originally a 360 (or has been modified). An accent vibrato is only held on by the strap button, so there shouldn't be any screw holes.
6.) Rick-O-Sound
7.) I haven't - only the older Capri models. Again, never-say-never, but they should have mostly been Klusons by that point, and the screw holes on the headstock will tell the tale.

[rickyfricky]

4). If you can't make a pickguard yourself, Tony at Pickguardian does top-notch work.

[Knave101]

I am sad to hear you don't have your 61 anymore. The one pictured in front of the Marshall right? That photo was a large inspiration for me to go ahead get this one. How did you rate the 61 as a playing guitar?

1.) I briefly owned a '61 365 "New Capri" and the two pickups were long-pole toasters in each position.

This is good news since the reissues are long pole.

2.) I'll try to dig up a photo - I have a few. It looks like any 60's 300-series guitar with long-pole toasters in both positions.

So my 66 365 routs are what I should ask the luthier to try to duplicate? (See photo).

3.) 7.5K , give-or-take.

Again the modern ones should work out of the box-unless perhaps the dimensions are different from the originals.

4.) Personally, I would make my own of 1/8" plexi (that's what the original was made of), and have the gold TRC color-matched as close as possible. The original gold was done with a Crescent bronzing powder that was added to clear coat and sprayed onto the TRC & pickguard. It's not readily available stuff these days, but you can get colors that are close via aerosol.

If you offer this service let me know! Otherwise I am thinking pickguardian. I wonder if he has the correct specs or I need to get my hands on a tracing? I've also asked Winfield, but haven't received a response yet. Something tells me this pickguard is going to be the hardest part for me.

6.) Rick-O-Sound

Does anyone sell a generic rick-o-sound jack? I can't see the point of having one from like 1973 on there.

7.) I haven't - only the older Capri models. Again, never-say-never, but they should have mostly been Klusons by that point, and the screw holes on the headstock will tell the tale.

I am almost certain the Grovers are original, particularly given the circumstances of this guitar. But I will have a look once I get the instrument.

Thanks for the input.

[kennyhowes]

<--- would like to see this

[collin]

I am sad to hear you don't have your 61 anymore. The one pictured in front of the Marshall right? That photo was a large inspiration for me to go ahead get this one. How did you rate the 61 as a playing guitar?

It was a fine guitar, but as you'll find...I'm more of a "catch 'n release" kind of guy most of the time.

It looked gorgeous and played nicely, but really - all of these guitars feel and play differently than one another. It felt like most any early 60s Rick, with a nice slim neck and low action. I sold it another RRF'er and I believe a dealer now has it.

Your 66 365 routes will be basically identical to the 61s, as are any long-pole toaster routes in the 300-series guitars. Reissue pickups are near enough for your needs. There are some minute small differences in the early 60s pickups ('58-'64) that are different than later 60s and reissues, but nothing major.

I don't have much time available for making pickguards to-order, but they're not too difficult. Otherwise, make a tracing of your guitar pickguard area (to align the screw holes and control locations) and Tony at Pickguardian can make you a guard to fit.

Winfield vintage sells a dual output jack plate that is a drop-in replacement for your Rick-o-Sound plate. It doesn't have any serial number or screenprinting, but at $60 it's cheaper than what real plates sell for on eBay.

Would be cool to see if the Grovers are original, it wouldn't be a huge surprise since they did use them periodically back then (along with Van Ghent tuners and some other varieties).

[Knave101]

It is missing a ferrule. I don't know if the hole spacing on sta-tites and Klusons is different but if the Klusons were there originally then there should be a footprint for them. I don't see it in the crud photo I have so I will update on that.

I suppose I should ask what the subtle differences between toasters in 1961 and later so that if I were to ever put in vintage ones I would know what to look for.

My bigger struggle is with the vibrato. I definitely like them on my guitar and the Accent works well enough, but the sustain kill it causes makes me tempted to put a B5 Bigsby on there.

I think this guitar is aesthetically the most beautiful guitar Rickenbacker ever produced, but as a gigging muso it really is easy to understand the mods that Lennon made to his. The oven knobs--super cool, but cannot be controlled on the fly as you have to get your hand just so. Accent is functional but the Kaufman has to be the worst piece of hardware ever found on any guitar.

Talk me out of adding the B5. Or invent a vibramute!

One side question on the "Ac'cent by Paul" that Winfield sells (thanks for the jack plate tip), were the originals just a plaque like this or actually part of the main apparatus? If it was a plaque it was just glued on then?

[Knave101]

And a final, final question: What is the period correct case for this guitar? The silver one like for my 1966 365 or?

PS, I think now I can add a B3 Bigsby to this guitar instead of a B5 and thereby not put any extra holes in it.

[libratune]

Period correct case would be gray oilcloth with red lining, as per photos below. (You can see 365 New Capri AH585 on the cover of the Rittor Music book with the texture of the gray oilcloth case shown behind the guitar.) The transition to silver tolex (first with red lining, then blue) started (I think) in late 1961.

[collin]

It is missing a ferrule. I don't know if the hole spacing on sta-tites and Klusons is different but if the Klusons were there originally then there should be a footprint for them. I don't see it in the crud photo I have so I will update on that.

Hole spacing is different between Sta-Tites and Klusons. Kluson spacing isn't as wide. The actual ferrule width is the same and Sta-tites should have a hexagonal ferrule

I suppose I should ask what the subtle differences between toasters in 1961 and later so that if I were to ever put in vintage ones I would know what to look for.

Cosmetic differences only - early toasters have "dimples" at the end of each part of the bobbin (that sticks out of the "toaster) - this disappears by early 1964. Also, the sheet metal on the bottom of the pickups will often have a makers mark stamp on the bottom, which you don't usually see after '64.

My bigger struggle is with the vibrato. I definitely like them on my guitar and the Accent works well enough, but the sustain kill it causes makes me tempted to put a B5 Bigsby on there.

I think this guitar is aesthetically the most beautiful guitar Rickenbacker ever produced, but as a gigging muso it really is easy to understand the mods that Lennon made to his. The oven knobs--super cool, but cannot be controlled on the fly as you have to get your hand just so. Accent is functional but the Kaufman has to be the worst piece of hardware ever found on any guitar.

Talk me out of adding the B5. Or invent a vibramute!

My advice is to give the Accent vibrato a try - not all Ricks work well with an Accent vibrato and some do - all of these guitars feel and play differently. However, for all that is sacred about vintage Rickenbackers..don't drill holes for a B-5!

I'll agree on the Kaufman though - they're terrible. Not a useful device at all, but then again....they're easily removed (unlike a Floyd Rose!).

One side question on the "Ac'cent by Paul" that Winfield sells (thanks for the jack plate tip), were the originals just a plaque like this or actually part of the main apparatus? If it was a plaque it was just glued on then?

I don't think the plaque was originally part of the Accent unit, they were attached somehow - but they appear to have been chromed with the plaque attached. On many, the chrome wears off the plaque, exposing the brass.

[Knave101]

OK, here she is.

http://oldschoolguitar.net/projects/pot ... r-project/

In addition to the obvious issues, I would be grateful for any input on any aspect of this guitar. For instance, the luthier thought that the inside of the cavity had perhaps been sanded down and painted given the dirt and lack of handwriting in there? Or that the jack plate area had been cut into.

It also looks like the cavity opening may have been enlarged, since there is finish on most parts except near the bridge pick up.

[collin]

Good project! Even in this state, it's a rare guitar worth saving.

The input jack area has been opened up with a forstner bit. I'd leave that alone - it won't show when the plate is mounted.

The control cavity looks like it has been enlargened at the top, most likely to fit a pickguard with controls further up near the pickups. Strange that there isn't writing under the finish, but I've seen far weirder details on early Ricks like this. The finish is certainly original.

[libratune]

One thing I noticed in looking at the photos of this guitar is that it does not have crushed pearl inlays (CPIs) on the fretboard but rather poured celluloid inlays. As far as I can tell, a select number of Rickenbacker guitars made in 1961, including all the 365s from that era, had the CPIs, which were then discontinued and not reintroduced until the advent of the "round top" New Style deluxe models in 1964.

I used to have a 1962 365 that is listed in the Register; it had the same features as the 1961 365 except it had poured inlays, not CPIs. Here's a pic of the inlays on that guitar. It may be that your guitar is not a 1961 but rather a 1962 or 1963.

1962 365 FG

[collin]

Good point Ron, my old '61 had early CPI.

Guessing this guitar is a '62 since it still has a gold TRC.

[libratune]

I have a 365 and 375 from mid-1963 and they both have gold pickguards and TRCs -- and Van Ghent tuners.

1963 375 ATG