Dumb question
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Dumb question
From the posts I have read it seems to be some kind of process performed by a technician or dealer to correct something messed up or overlooked at the factory. Is this something I need to have done before I bring home the Ric I just ordered?
Nothing compares to the sound of a Rick 12 with a JangleBox and a touch of chorus.
This is not a dumb question at all and is something that all of us are faced with. There is a fairly detailed explanation of Intonation at Harmony Central that should help. You can ask Mark Arnquist specific questions under the Ask A Rickenbacker Luthier section of this Forum.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Jaybyrd - Intonation is what needs to be done to make most of the notes sound right most of the time. This may sound dumb, but instruments which have fixed notes (like guitars and pianos) can NOT play perfect sounding notes all over their sonic range.
Intonation is a way whereby you can decide what is supposed to sound the best.
On a guitar, which is correctly set up (neck is straight and has proper relief), frets are correctly dressed, nut slots are correct, bridge is correctly positioned and adjusted, each string will need to be a little longer or shorter which string and the string guage, etc...
Tuned to perfect pitch open, the string harmonic at the twelveth fret should be a perfect octave of the open note - then the fretted twelveth fret should be the same as the harmonic.
If the bridge saddles aren't in the right place, you can be perfectly in tune open and all your strings can be sharp or flat fretted at the third fret!
Most new guitars are set-up pretty well from the factory and most guitar shops will double-check before letting an instrument you've just paid over $1000 out the door "wrong".
Still, working/touring rock guitar players hire full-time techs to do this stuff for them. And they do it before each show!
Intonation is a way whereby you can decide what is supposed to sound the best.
On a guitar, which is correctly set up (neck is straight and has proper relief), frets are correctly dressed, nut slots are correct, bridge is correctly positioned and adjusted, each string will need to be a little longer or shorter which string and the string guage, etc...
Tuned to perfect pitch open, the string harmonic at the twelveth fret should be a perfect octave of the open note - then the fretted twelveth fret should be the same as the harmonic.
If the bridge saddles aren't in the right place, you can be perfectly in tune open and all your strings can be sharp or flat fretted at the third fret!
Most new guitars are set-up pretty well from the factory and most guitar shops will double-check before letting an instrument you've just paid over $1000 out the door "wrong".
Still, working/touring rock guitar players hire full-time techs to do this stuff for them. And they do it before each show!
I browsed it, too. It certainly puts a lot of light on a subject that I was totally ignorant of. That old guitar I referred to (I still have by the way) in my last post had the individual saddles for each string. I thought they were used to raise and lower the string height!! No wonder I could never get it to sound right over the fretboard!! Looks like I just might try my hand at intonation on the old Sears 6 string!
Nothing compares to the sound of a Rick 12 with a JangleBox and a touch of chorus.
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jazzsmith
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justonwo
You can follow this link to get Rickenbacker's official word on intonation.
http://www.rickenbacker.com/us/pitch.htm
http://www.rickenbacker.com/us/pitch.htm
I'll give you my input here as to HOW I have done this since the mid 1970's.
The factors that matter as to how good of a job is done are these ;
1- the guitar MUST be set up with the gauge of string that is 'normally' used.
and the tuning that is 'normally' used.
this set up includes -truss rod(s) adjustment,nut slots set to proper depth (so when you fret at the first fret those notes are not sharp),bridge set at the height you like ,and the frets leveled and crowned (flat top frets do NOT work -the scale length is thrown off !),and the saddles set/cut/adjusted to follow the radius of the fretboard.
2-after those processes are done or at least checked ,then I intonate .
If the guitar has (this is for any brand ...not just Rickenbacker's) pickups that have polepieces that are in fact the magnets,you must lower the pickup AWAY from the strings to get the clearest 'picture/image' of the note .
In the case of 'Toaster' pickups (and this is especially needed for the guitars with three pickups),I remove ,or rather unscrew and allow to dangle (I secure them with tape to the guard) and only use the bridge pickup with the tone control rolled off.I then remove the grommets and lower the pickup as far as I can .This gives me the clearest image possible .You don't have to do this ....but it makes a difference if you do .
3- I use one of two Peterson 420 strobe tuners .I have used these since the 1970's when I bought my first one ,after I sold my CONN .The Peterson out performed the Conn by a long shot .
I have had my first one back to the factory twice since 1976 and it is working perfectly .Yes ...the shaft of the motor does need to be lubricated periodically ,but so what ! It works great .
Ask auto mechanics if they would rather use strobe guns or digital equipment to tune their personal cars......strobe almost always win (if you let them explain why).
The guitar ,after tuning must have new strings ,and they need not be stretched out yet .The fretting touch and the harmonic touch to the strings must be almost the same and the attack of the string in both needs to be identical .If you hit the strings hard ,your reading will waver too much.
I first use the 12th fret harmonic as the 'true' note and read the fretted 12th fret note .If the fretted note is sharp ...I move the saddle away from the neck ,if flat towards the neck .
The final position of the saddle I leave 1 to 2 cents flat of right on .Why?
Because you playing technique changes when you play ...some times you hit light ,sometimes
hard(er).This needs to be taken into account .
There is NO WAY to get this perfectly correct .Not even the Feiten system is perfect .There is NO ultimate way to get a guitar to be intune ...there are too many compromises .
BUT!!!! you can get it to be the best that you can by following all of my set up info found at this site.
After setting all the strings from the octave ,I check the 5th and 7th frets and then if they need to be adjusted (tempered) I do that then .
I also check the bridge location on every (read that EVERY BRAND ) instrument I work on .
Many are in fact in the correct location .
The standard rule of thumb is this ;
edge of the fretboard at the nut- to the center of the 12th fret ,double that and that gives you the location of the bridge .
EXCEPT .....you need to compensate for tension/tuning ,string gauge,height of strings ,pickup/magnet pull, scale length and whether or not you believe anything I have to say.
To the treble side I add 1/16" to the doubled measurement of the nut to the 12th fret .
To the bass side I add 5/32" .
This gives you within 1/32" the correct location of the edge of the breaking off point that the saddle will need to be at .This is for ALL acoustic or electric six or 12 string guitars.
There are some other little things I do but this is a good idea of what is done .
YES ....there are many good tuners on the market that use the SEIKO IC chip ...they are nice little tuners and I also have one of those ,it is used on stage 3 times a week to help me tune the guitars for the gig .It is susceptible to outside noise though and gives me false readings sometimes ! I took it back as I felt it defective ,and got another one ....it does the same thing .Keep these away from bass cabinets!
BY the way ...I reinstall all grommets and pickups after loosening the strings one more time .This is easier on a Fender as you can lower the pickups into the body ,but it sure helps doing it .It is also one reason it costs more to setup and intonate a Rick.
Good luck .
The factors that matter as to how good of a job is done are these ;
1- the guitar MUST be set up with the gauge of string that is 'normally' used.
and the tuning that is 'normally' used.
this set up includes -truss rod(s) adjustment,nut slots set to proper depth (so when you fret at the first fret those notes are not sharp),bridge set at the height you like ,and the frets leveled and crowned (flat top frets do NOT work -the scale length is thrown off !),and the saddles set/cut/adjusted to follow the radius of the fretboard.
2-after those processes are done or at least checked ,then I intonate .
If the guitar has (this is for any brand ...not just Rickenbacker's) pickups that have polepieces that are in fact the magnets,you must lower the pickup AWAY from the strings to get the clearest 'picture/image' of the note .
In the case of 'Toaster' pickups (and this is especially needed for the guitars with three pickups),I remove ,or rather unscrew and allow to dangle (I secure them with tape to the guard) and only use the bridge pickup with the tone control rolled off.I then remove the grommets and lower the pickup as far as I can .This gives me the clearest image possible .You don't have to do this ....but it makes a difference if you do .
3- I use one of two Peterson 420 strobe tuners .I have used these since the 1970's when I bought my first one ,after I sold my CONN .The Peterson out performed the Conn by a long shot .
I have had my first one back to the factory twice since 1976 and it is working perfectly .Yes ...the shaft of the motor does need to be lubricated periodically ,but so what ! It works great .
Ask auto mechanics if they would rather use strobe guns or digital equipment to tune their personal cars......strobe almost always win (if you let them explain why).
The guitar ,after tuning must have new strings ,and they need not be stretched out yet .The fretting touch and the harmonic touch to the strings must be almost the same and the attack of the string in both needs to be identical .If you hit the strings hard ,your reading will waver too much.
I first use the 12th fret harmonic as the 'true' note and read the fretted 12th fret note .If the fretted note is sharp ...I move the saddle away from the neck ,if flat towards the neck .
The final position of the saddle I leave 1 to 2 cents flat of right on .Why?
Because you playing technique changes when you play ...some times you hit light ,sometimes
hard(er).This needs to be taken into account .
There is NO WAY to get this perfectly correct .Not even the Feiten system is perfect .There is NO ultimate way to get a guitar to be intune ...there are too many compromises .
BUT!!!! you can get it to be the best that you can by following all of my set up info found at this site.
After setting all the strings from the octave ,I check the 5th and 7th frets and then if they need to be adjusted (tempered) I do that then .
I also check the bridge location on every (read that EVERY BRAND ) instrument I work on .
Many are in fact in the correct location .
The standard rule of thumb is this ;
edge of the fretboard at the nut- to the center of the 12th fret ,double that and that gives you the location of the bridge .
EXCEPT .....you need to compensate for tension/tuning ,string gauge,height of strings ,pickup/magnet pull, scale length and whether or not you believe anything I have to say.
To the treble side I add 1/16" to the doubled measurement of the nut to the 12th fret .
To the bass side I add 5/32" .
This gives you within 1/32" the correct location of the edge of the breaking off point that the saddle will need to be at .This is for ALL acoustic or electric six or 12 string guitars.
There are some other little things I do but this is a good idea of what is done .
YES ....there are many good tuners on the market that use the SEIKO IC chip ...they are nice little tuners and I also have one of those ,it is used on stage 3 times a week to help me tune the guitars for the gig .It is susceptible to outside noise though and gives me false readings sometimes ! I took it back as I felt it defective ,and got another one ....it does the same thing .Keep these away from bass cabinets!
BY the way ...I reinstall all grommets and pickups after loosening the strings one more time .This is easier on a Fender as you can lower the pickups into the body ,but it sure helps doing it .It is also one reason it costs more to setup and intonate a Rick.
Good luck .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!