As regards Ed Romans alterations you may like to consider these postings from Josh
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A plea for wider 12-string necks - Mr. Hall?
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Philco wrote Quote:The question was whether a customer COULD get the guitar that he liked with a wider neck.
Thanks for bringing the topic back to the original question as Robu, the originator of the topic, wrote Quote:Why won't they make a 300 series 12-string with a wide neck?
As with many interesting questions, they result in more questions that, although relevant, go beyond the initial point that the author is trying to make. The answer to Robu's question would certainly seem to be No, there are no immediate plans to manufacture a 300 series with a wider neck. John Hall has articulated the reasons for this from RIC's viewpoint. In fairness, we certainly have had his attention with regard to this issue.
While an interesting academic exercise with many business 101 principles articulated, the passionate arguments for changing the neck width seem to fall within the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" category.
Philip Hart raises another interesting point. Perhaps it is wiser to leave the building of Rickenbacker necks to RIC, they have had more experience than anyone else.
Thanks for bringing the topic back to the original question as Robu, the originator of the topic, wrote Quote:Why won't they make a 300 series 12-string with a wide neck?
As with many interesting questions, they result in more questions that, although relevant, go beyond the initial point that the author is trying to make. The answer to Robu's question would certainly seem to be No, there are no immediate plans to manufacture a 300 series with a wider neck. John Hall has articulated the reasons for this from RIC's viewpoint. In fairness, we certainly have had his attention with regard to this issue.
While an interesting academic exercise with many business 101 principles articulated, the passionate arguments for changing the neck width seem to fall within the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" category.
Philip Hart raises another interesting point. Perhaps it is wiser to leave the building of Rickenbacker necks to RIC, they have had more experience than anyone else.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Just because I said that Daimler-Benz had become a great auto manufacturer without staying small, that does not mean that I agree with any wrong decision they might make later, like buying a languishing American company in order to get a larger labor pool. They could have gotten a better labor pool somewhere else, most likely. And NOW was not the time for them to be thinking about expanding capacity, but rather increasing or maintaining profits in the face of global recession. The Byrds sang that to every PURPOSE there is a SEASON, and I believe most RIC owners are familiar with them. And that song came from Ecclesiastes which came from no lesser person than Solomon himself. The wood that is used in a guitar neck is a perfect example of alternating growth and consolidation. If the tree tried to grow in the winter and rested in the summer, it would be a dead tree quite soon. Maybe the execs at D-B need to go outside and just stare at trees for a while.
Benz-Micro of Switzerland bought the American owned Stanton cartridge company years ago then expected the workers to build phono cartridges to the same quality level that their Swiss company did. I think the first thing they got was a request for higher wages and more worker benefits, then the workers gave the company a lot of ****** phono cartridges. Daimler-Benz should have paid a bit more attention to those who preceded them. The guys who run D-B now are probably NOT the ones that got it to where it is. My argument stands. As I recall, the people that trashed out Fender were not the man that built the company.
To have a guitar modified is a personal and sometimes risky decision. It doesn't always work out the way intended.I would never send my guitar that's under warranty to Ed Roman until it ran out of warranty or he placed a similar warranty on his work. I also like the neck heel on my 650D as it serves as a thumb rest when playing the upper frets. I told Scott Krell of Ed Roman Guitars this, and he said I am the first one he spoke to that liked it the way it was (people who are happy rarely call for modifications, you know). That is also the way it is on my 4004L bass and that's the way it will also stay. It is unfortunate that shaving the neck on a 650D caused a problem for one owner, but that is probably solveable by using a clamping jig to put a counterbow in the neck, heating it overnight with a heatlamp, then letting it cool and set for a day before removing the clamps. Maple is supposed to respond very well to forming a bend under heat, then holding a set after it cools. Some luthier with more experience than me could better advise on that, though. That is one reason all my Ricks were bought with pure maple necks, besides the punch that maple gives the sound. My ideas of how a neck should curve may not be to everyone else's liking, and I can change it if I want. Wood has a mind of its own at times, and the 650D owner with the shaved neck may have to enter into a battle of wits with his guitar's stiff neck.
How's this for an idea: Just send that 650D to RIC and have them convert it to the first 650D/12. The extra string tension should pull that stubborn stiff neck right into compliance. Probably not an option, it seems. Or one of you guys wanting a 650D/12 can just buy it from him and have special saddle rollers made that hold two strings and then throw a 660/12 nut on it and convert the headstock to 12-string configuration. Nobody else would have one like it!
Benz-Micro of Switzerland bought the American owned Stanton cartridge company years ago then expected the workers to build phono cartridges to the same quality level that their Swiss company did. I think the first thing they got was a request for higher wages and more worker benefits, then the workers gave the company a lot of ****** phono cartridges. Daimler-Benz should have paid a bit more attention to those who preceded them. The guys who run D-B now are probably NOT the ones that got it to where it is. My argument stands. As I recall, the people that trashed out Fender were not the man that built the company.
To have a guitar modified is a personal and sometimes risky decision. It doesn't always work out the way intended.I would never send my guitar that's under warranty to Ed Roman until it ran out of warranty or he placed a similar warranty on his work. I also like the neck heel on my 650D as it serves as a thumb rest when playing the upper frets. I told Scott Krell of Ed Roman Guitars this, and he said I am the first one he spoke to that liked it the way it was (people who are happy rarely call for modifications, you know). That is also the way it is on my 4004L bass and that's the way it will also stay. It is unfortunate that shaving the neck on a 650D caused a problem for one owner, but that is probably solveable by using a clamping jig to put a counterbow in the neck, heating it overnight with a heatlamp, then letting it cool and set for a day before removing the clamps. Maple is supposed to respond very well to forming a bend under heat, then holding a set after it cools. Some luthier with more experience than me could better advise on that, though. That is one reason all my Ricks were bought with pure maple necks, besides the punch that maple gives the sound. My ideas of how a neck should curve may not be to everyone else's liking, and I can change it if I want. Wood has a mind of its own at times, and the 650D owner with the shaved neck may have to enter into a battle of wits with his guitar's stiff neck.
How's this for an idea: Just send that 650D to RIC and have them convert it to the first 650D/12. The extra string tension should pull that stubborn stiff neck right into compliance. Probably not an option, it seems. Or one of you guys wanting a 650D/12 can just buy it from him and have special saddle rollers made that hold two strings and then throw a 660/12 nut on it and convert the headstock to 12-string configuration. Nobody else would have one like it!
Peter is right, RIC has pretty much told us that they will not be building any new models of wide necked 12-string guitars any time soon.
Thus the original question has been answered, and maybe we should just let it die like an old horse that has been whipped but just can't go any further. Besides, 12-string guitars are not in the mainstream, even though they are a big part of RIC production. If they lose that, it may be a big loss to RIC, but a small gain to any major companies picking up the business.
I do not want to go on record as seemingly trying to tell RIC what they can do. That's THEIR business! The risks and rewards are all theirs to enjoy.
I'm just saying that if there REALLY is a demand for wider necked 12-string guitars, and they do not fill it while they fill the demand for the narrow necked variety only (excepting for the 660/12), then somebody else will fill if for them, AND GUESS WHAT??? They can build the narrow neck versions just as easily, especially by using the basic production formula I presented, which has been used by other manufacturers building other things, like gun parts (long barrel or short barrel).
This is just one way of losing market share. And there is a season for that purpose as well.
If the 12-string market were not so small, it probably would have already happened.
Time for a new subject, don't you think?.
Thus the original question has been answered, and maybe we should just let it die like an old horse that has been whipped but just can't go any further. Besides, 12-string guitars are not in the mainstream, even though they are a big part of RIC production. If they lose that, it may be a big loss to RIC, but a small gain to any major companies picking up the business.
I do not want to go on record as seemingly trying to tell RIC what they can do. That's THEIR business! The risks and rewards are all theirs to enjoy.
I'm just saying that if there REALLY is a demand for wider necked 12-string guitars, and they do not fill it while they fill the demand for the narrow necked variety only (excepting for the 660/12), then somebody else will fill if for them, AND GUESS WHAT??? They can build the narrow neck versions just as easily, especially by using the basic production formula I presented, which has been used by other manufacturers building other things, like gun parts (long barrel or short barrel).
This is just one way of losing market share. And there is a season for that purpose as well.
If the 12-string market were not so small, it probably would have already happened.
Time for a new subject, don't you think?.
Well, I'm a little late coming back to this discussion (I lost my password, and had to re-register - thanks for your help with that Peter), but as the originater of the topic (as Robu), I just want to add a couple of final thoughts. First to echo Peter's sentiment to Mr. Hall. No other CEO of a guitar company would participate in a forum, as Mr. Hall does, and I, as I am sure all of us are grateful for his candor, and knowledge. Where else could I get personal answer to such a question?
While I would still love to have a 300 series 12 with a wide neck, I accept, and respect Mr. Hall's descision. I certainly didn't expect this topic to go on for as long as it has.
As I said originally, I have found no other 12-string with the sound and build quality of Rickenbacker. So, with my question answered, this week I finally traded my 620/12 for a brand new 360/12. I did this for the added comfort of the larger body, and the hollow body sound. The neck is a little thicker than my 620/12 which is a plus and makes it a bit more comfortable as well. perhaps in a while, I will add a modified nut (I pulled the one I made off of my 620/12 before I traded it).
I am very satisfied to still have a Rickenbacker, and wouldn't have it any other way.
I certainly agree with Peter that it is time to put this topic to rest. Our questions have been answered, abstracts have been explored, and at the end we still have our Rickenbacker guitars!
Thank you Mr Hall, Mr. McCormack, and everyone else.
Peace.
Rob
While I would still love to have a 300 series 12 with a wide neck, I accept, and respect Mr. Hall's descision. I certainly didn't expect this topic to go on for as long as it has.
As I said originally, I have found no other 12-string with the sound and build quality of Rickenbacker. So, with my question answered, this week I finally traded my 620/12 for a brand new 360/12. I did this for the added comfort of the larger body, and the hollow body sound. The neck is a little thicker than my 620/12 which is a plus and makes it a bit more comfortable as well. perhaps in a while, I will add a modified nut (I pulled the one I made off of my 620/12 before I traded it).
I am very satisfied to still have a Rickenbacker, and wouldn't have it any other way.
I certainly agree with Peter that it is time to put this topic to rest. Our questions have been answered, abstracts have been explored, and at the end we still have our Rickenbacker guitars!
Thank you Mr Hall, Mr. McCormack, and everyone else.
Peace.
Rob
12 strings, no waiting