I have an old lapsteel, the head stock has rickenbacher "electro" los angeles, the very top
has v3002.It came with some old Bronson Music Co.
music books Detroit 1941, and cool old steel slide. would any one know the age, model, & value
Thanks, Tom
Lapsteel Identification/ value
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Tom,
I lightened the photo you sent me to bring out more detail and will attach the image to this post. I still need to know whether the pickup is 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" wide.
I've done quite a bit of research on this lap steel. It is not a documented model. The serial number on the headstock is meaningless as were all serial numbers prior to 1954.
There is no documentation of any guitar shaped wood body lap steel instruments made by Rick at any time during the history of the company that I can find. The first documented wood lap steel made by them was the model 100 in 1955. It was not a guitar shaped instrument.
For purposes of this discussion I will assume the pickup is 1 1/4" wide. Essentially your instrument coresponds most closely to the model S (A.K.A. model NS), which was made from stamped metal and was produced from 1946 until the early 50s. Since there was a major shortage of metal during world war 2, very few electic instruments were made and some factories were converted to weapons and electronic manufacturing for the military. Rickenbacker produced no documented lap steels from some time in 1943 until 1946. My best guess is this steel was probably made in 1945-46, prior to the introduction of the model S. It is probably a transitional model or a prototype that never went into mass production.
It is impossible to put a value on this instrument. It looks pretty beat up. If it
works, it would probably be of interested to some collectors. The metal body instruments of this era in good condition sell for $300-$400. If the pickup is 1 1/2" wide, it might be worth a little more, since the wider pickup is considered to be much better.
I lightened the photo you sent me to bring out more detail and will attach the image to this post. I still need to know whether the pickup is 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" wide.
I've done quite a bit of research on this lap steel. It is not a documented model. The serial number on the headstock is meaningless as were all serial numbers prior to 1954.
There is no documentation of any guitar shaped wood body lap steel instruments made by Rick at any time during the history of the company that I can find. The first documented wood lap steel made by them was the model 100 in 1955. It was not a guitar shaped instrument.
For purposes of this discussion I will assume the pickup is 1 1/4" wide. Essentially your instrument coresponds most closely to the model S (A.K.A. model NS), which was made from stamped metal and was produced from 1946 until the early 50s. Since there was a major shortage of metal during world war 2, very few electic instruments were made and some factories were converted to weapons and electronic manufacturing for the military. Rickenbacker produced no documented lap steels from some time in 1943 until 1946. My best guess is this steel was probably made in 1945-46, prior to the introduction of the model S. It is probably a transitional model or a prototype that never went into mass production.
It is impossible to put a value on this instrument. It looks pretty beat up. If it
works, it would probably be of interested to some collectors. The metal body instruments of this era in good condition sell for $300-$400. If the pickup is 1 1/2" wide, it might be worth a little more, since the wider pickup is considered to be much better.
-
sienk4
Tom,
You can't just look at it. Learning to play one of these is pretty easy. Let me know if you want to sell it.
The 1 1/2" pickup size makes me think that the instrument might have been made in 1942-43. I can't be sure. It's possible some of the prewar pickups may have been kept until just after the war and used on the earliest postwar models.
By the way, I posted the instrument on the Steel Guitar Forum to see if I could get any more info.
Check it out.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006558.html
You can't just look at it. Learning to play one of these is pretty easy. Let me know if you want to sell it.
The 1 1/2" pickup size makes me think that the instrument might have been made in 1942-43. I can't be sure. It's possible some of the prewar pickups may have been kept until just after the war and used on the earliest postwar models.
By the way, I posted the instrument on the Steel Guitar Forum to see if I could get any more info.
Check it out.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006558.html
Great photos, but still no real help in exact dating. Posting this on the Steel Guitar Forum wasn't any help, and a lot of these guys really know their stuff.
The only other way of getting closer to the actual production date is to use the pot codes. If six digit codes are on the pots, at least the pots were made after WW2. If there are no codes, the pots are prewar.
Anyway, the most important identifying feature is the 1 1/2" pickup, the production of which ceased in 1943. The tuning machines also look prewar. I think it's safe to assume the instrument was made in the early "40s.
All things considered it's a very rare Rick lap steel, possibly one of a kind. I would love to hear it through a vintage Fender amp or for that matter any good modern tube amp.
The only other way of getting closer to the actual production date is to use the pot codes. If six digit codes are on the pots, at least the pots were made after WW2. If there are no codes, the pots are prewar.
Anyway, the most important identifying feature is the 1 1/2" pickup, the production of which ceased in 1943. The tuning machines also look prewar. I think it's safe to assume the instrument was made in the early "40s.
All things considered it's a very rare Rick lap steel, possibly one of a kind. I would love to hear it through a vintage Fender amp or for that matter any good modern tube amp.
-
sienk4
I saw your post on the SGF ... but figured it was an item for sale ...
I try and not discuss steels on a public forum that are actively on ebay or for sale thru a shop ... .
But since I see it's not ...
That's a non-adjustable 1.5" Horseshoe Pick-up ... ala Model 59.
The knobs appear from that photo to be "Flying Saucers" ... standard on Rickys after '37 or '38.
Thats a Ricky metal badge .. not a decal/sticker ... like on newer Model 59s and Model NS.
Can't see the bridge well ... but the screw position makes me think its the standard bakelite bridge used in Model 59's, later Silver Hawaiians and Model NS. Early Silvers had chromed brass nut/bridge.
Larger bakelite bridges were used on postwar B6s, D12s (Double neck 6), D14s (Double neck 7) and D16s (Double neck
.
If it is "homemade" someone went to alot of effort to procure Ricky Model 59 parts ... or ... it may be "homemade' using a rusted/trashed Model 59 ... for parts
Or its a factory prototype ... ???
That idea seems strange though ... since they had all the molds for frypans and bakelites ... and stamping templates for Silvers, 59's and later NS.
If it had an adjustable pup ... I'd lean toward the notion it was the prototype for all Hollow Bodied Steels ... but that non-adjustable setup came later.
As far as the pots ... there is gonna either be a bay door for them on the backside ... or somebody really wanted to replicate a 59 ... by digging out ... via the pickup bay.
They aren't gonna be "mystery solvers" though ... everything on there screams Model 59 ... so I'm sure the pots will be old Centralabs ... possibly the big black cased ones. The Capactor will likely be a "sausage" Spraque or Tiger.
Maybe George Beauchamp and Adolph were thinkin' of puttin something out ... as an answer to the Gibson EHs ... ???
A real mystery for sure ... an exciting one too !!!
I don't know much about the Ricky spanish guitars from that era ('cept the spanish B6) ... how does the fretmarkers on this steel compare to those ... ???
And the nut ... I can't see that well ... Does it look like an insert ... ala Frypan.
Your answers may ultimately lie there ... fretboard and nut ????
Fun to think about ... thanks for showin' this rascal off.
Richard, as far as the B6 mentioned by someone ... in your SGF post ... I've seen that one several times. That wood neck was an after-market ... albiet a good one ... replacement for a snapped bakelite neck.
I try and not discuss steels on a public forum that are actively on ebay or for sale thru a shop ... .
But since I see it's not ...
That's a non-adjustable 1.5" Horseshoe Pick-up ... ala Model 59.
The knobs appear from that photo to be "Flying Saucers" ... standard on Rickys after '37 or '38.
Thats a Ricky metal badge .. not a decal/sticker ... like on newer Model 59s and Model NS.
Can't see the bridge well ... but the screw position makes me think its the standard bakelite bridge used in Model 59's, later Silver Hawaiians and Model NS. Early Silvers had chromed brass nut/bridge.
Larger bakelite bridges were used on postwar B6s, D12s (Double neck 6), D14s (Double neck 7) and D16s (Double neck
. If it is "homemade" someone went to alot of effort to procure Ricky Model 59 parts ... or ... it may be "homemade' using a rusted/trashed Model 59 ... for parts
Or its a factory prototype ... ???
That idea seems strange though ... since they had all the molds for frypans and bakelites ... and stamping templates for Silvers, 59's and later NS.
If it had an adjustable pup ... I'd lean toward the notion it was the prototype for all Hollow Bodied Steels ... but that non-adjustable setup came later.
As far as the pots ... there is gonna either be a bay door for them on the backside ... or somebody really wanted to replicate a 59 ... by digging out ... via the pickup bay.
They aren't gonna be "mystery solvers" though ... everything on there screams Model 59 ... so I'm sure the pots will be old Centralabs ... possibly the big black cased ones. The Capactor will likely be a "sausage" Spraque or Tiger.
Maybe George Beauchamp and Adolph were thinkin' of puttin something out ... as an answer to the Gibson EHs ... ???
A real mystery for sure ... an exciting one too !!!
I don't know much about the Ricky spanish guitars from that era ('cept the spanish B6) ... how does the fretmarkers on this steel compare to those ... ???
And the nut ... I can't see that well ... Does it look like an insert ... ala Frypan.
Your answers may ultimately lie there ... fretboard and nut ????
Fun to think about ... thanks for showin' this rascal off.
Richard, as far as the B6 mentioned by someone ... in your SGF post ... I've seen that one several times. That wood neck was an after-market ... albiet a good one ... replacement for a snapped bakelite neck.
-
sienk4
I really dont know that much about steels, more so guitars, but I can take any angle picture, or check any thing on the steel, WITH some coaching.
I'll check with the person I recieved it from and see if I can get any info on were she got it, I know she said she had it since she was a little girl, it also has those old "Detriot" Bronson music co. pamplets copyright 1941. I dont know if that would be an age indacator, it also has a case, a little rough around the edges though.
I'll check with the person I recieved it from and see if I can get any info on were she got it, I know she said she had it since she was a little girl, it also has those old "Detriot" Bronson music co. pamplets copyright 1941. I dont know if that would be an age indacator, it also has a case, a little rough around the edges though.
There's your answer.
The Bronson Guitar company had Rickys do up brown bakelite B6s ... and sold them as Bronsons.
I betccha this was a Bronson prototype ... for a line of wood Rickys.
Cool ...
I don't have a Bronson B6 ... but I bettcha Richard does.
They also made cast frypans with "wings" ... A Singin' Bronson or something like that.
The Bronson Guitar company had Rickys do up brown bakelite B6s ... and sold them as Bronsons.
I betccha this was a Bronson prototype ... for a line of wood Rickys.
Cool ...
I don't have a Bronson B6 ... but I bettcha Richard does.
They also made cast frypans with "wings" ... A Singin' Bronson or something like that.
Rick,
Tom sent me some better photos. The logo looks like a decal.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/detail?.dir=e2ce&.dnm=32f3.jpg&.src=ph
You're almost right about the Bronson brown Bakelite. I used to have one with the matching amp. I sold it to a guy named Bronson. He just had to have it. It's one of only three instruments I've ever sold.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/detail?.dir=d2b0&.dnm=d3af.jpg&.src=ph
Tom sent me some better photos. The logo looks like a decal.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/detail?.dir=e2ce&.dnm=32f3.jpg&.src=ph
You're almost right about the Bronson brown Bakelite. I used to have one with the matching amp. I sold it to a guy named Bronson. He just had to have it. It's one of only three instruments I've ever sold.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/detail?.dir=d2b0&.dnm=d3af.jpg&.src=ph
Oh yeah ... classic 59 / NS sticker.
I don't now a whole lot about the various Bronsons ... but they had quite a "stable" of guitars for awhile ... made by other companies:
Kay, Harmony, Rickenbacher, National/Supro/Valco ...
A very cool specimen ... Thanks again for this little mystery ...
Richard, I'm with you ... I only consume ... never sell ... ha, ha
PS: Now that I think about it ... that winged frypan was outta Chicago ...
I don't now a whole lot about the various Bronsons ... but they had quite a "stable" of guitars for awhile ... made by other companies:
Kay, Harmony, Rickenbacher, National/Supro/Valco ...
A very cool specimen ... Thanks again for this little mystery ...
Richard, I'm with you ... I only consume ... never sell ... ha, ha
PS: Now that I think about it ... that winged frypan was outta Chicago ...
Rick,
I think that winged frypan was called the Century Singing Electric. Almost definitely a Rick horseshoe pickup.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/album?.dir=7b98&.src=ph
I've only seen a few of these, most without pickup. I tried to buy the one in the photos on Ebay. It went for a lot more than I was willing to pay. Have you ever played one? How is it?
I think that winged frypan was called the Century Singing Electric. Almost definitely a Rick horseshoe pickup.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/album?.dir=7b98&.src=ph
I've only seen a few of these, most without pickup. I tried to buy the one in the photos on Ebay. It went for a lot more than I was willing to pay. Have you ever played one? How is it?