Jetglo ROCKS!!
Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
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Ontario_RIC_fan
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2794
- Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:39 pm
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
Congrats on the new RIC!
Jetglo ROCKS!!
Jetglo ROCKS!!
Brian Morton
A Rickenbacker Fan
in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
=========================
67 FG 625
74 JG 4000
76 JG 430
77 JG 620
77 JG 320
79 JG 4001
80 FG 620/12
81 BG 480
91 JG 610
02 BG 620
78 TR7
83 TR25
A Rickenbacker Fan
in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
=========================
67 FG 625
74 JG 4000
76 JG 430
77 JG 620
77 JG 320
79 JG 4001
80 FG 620/12
81 BG 480
91 JG 610
02 BG 620
78 TR7
83 TR25
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
B and E string always seem to ring out louder on Rics. Nature of the beast. You can tame them by lowering polepieces.bgm wrote:Clifton wrote:
Did you play around with adjusting the poles on the hi-gains when you had them?
Being able to raise or lower polepieces is a relatively new thing for Rics. Could not do that until recent years. I have a 2012 with the new adjustable polepieces and I lowered them on the high E and B strings. Word of advice: man, they would not budge! Even though I was applying some decent force on them, man, they would not budge. I was afraid I would rip the guitar apart - do permanent damage to the pickups. Others here told me the polepieces on new Rics can be very stubborn. My advice to you is if they don't budge, that's normal. Don't be afraid to really put your back into it first time you adjust the pole pieces. Go anti-clockwise and clockwise just to loosen them. I went in both directions and they finally gave way.
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
Hey there. I don't claim to be an expert but I've owned two 360/12s in addition to a few other 12 strings. Rickenbackers are a totally different beast and most shops don't seem to know how to set them up, I've had to figure it out for myself. So here's my experience:
I was like you, and really just wanted one because they're so cool and legendary. I bought a used 1990s with hi-gains and a 12-saddle bridge a couple years ago on Reverb. Even with the 12-saddle bridge I could never get it playing comfortably, and could never get "the sound" I've been wanting to hear, and I sold it when i needed some cash. I got better at playing 12s and dialing in a sound and always wanted to try again.
Early 2019, I found the perfect one in the best price range on Reverb. 1983 360/12 with toaster pickups and a 12-saddle bridge. $2k. I list the price because if you sit on Reverb long enough, a 360/12 with toasters and a 12-saddle bridge WILL pop up for about $2k. I've since seen a few more since then. That's like the magic price as far as I've seen. I got even luckier because this one has some "vintage" things, being an 83' that some people say are important (nerd stuff about neck bracing, I have no idea honestly but ok).
Setup-
Here's what I do know; these guitars need very low action to play comfortably and to "stay in tune". If your action is high, notes will buzz because it's more difficult to fret them with the narrow fretboard, and some strings of a pair will fret sharp, and others wont, which makes it sound "out of tune" when it's actually not. Also high action somehow makes the much maligned "narrow" fretboard feel like a toothpick but with a good setup it plays like any normal width fretboard. You've got to get the neck nearly flat. Don't be intimidated by the truss rods, but their design isn't strong enough for tightening the nuts to pull the neck back alone, most likely the nuts will just dig into the block they sit on. You need to help them with the tension. The trick is, pull the neck back and put a bit of tension on it (like you're trying to bend your strings sharp without a wammy bar), and with the neck pulled back a bit, THEN turn the truss rod screws. You can either place the guitar on a table and have a helper hold the body while you tension the neck and adjust, or hold the body between your legs, put backbow tension on the neck with your left hand, and adjust the truss rod fasteners with your right hand. You really do want it nearly flat!!
Bridge- 6 saddle or 12?
With six saddles, string pairs with big gauge differences will never intonate exactly right. Your high E and B will be fine sine they're unisons. The rest will be a compromise which you'll have to determine for yourself. With a 12 saddle bridge you can intonate each string exactly correct. I've only ever had a 12-saddle bridge on mine, so I can't really tell you if it matters or not. I suspect with the right setup with low action that doesn't sharp notes when you fret them, you can get most of the way there on a 6 saddle bridge, and so many great records have been recorded on 6-saddle rick 12s you can kind of hear how they're slightly not intonated, and with the right setup it'll probably sound great. I will say with my 12-saddle bridge and setup, sometimes I don't even need to tune it at all.
String Gauges-
The next super important thing with Ricks is the string gauges. People stress out about what TYPE of strings to use (flat, round, whatever) but I've tried them all and honestly the gauges are most important, then you dial in the string type based on what sound you're going for. The Ernie Ball 12 string set is the best starting point that I wish I had found out about earlier. It taught me some useful stuff. https://www.guitarcenter.com/Ernie-Ball ... 7998563.gc . Key things about it are the lighter plain strings (9s and 12s instead of 10s and 13s) and a plain string for the high octaves on the just about every string pairing except the low E pairing. That's important because the plain string balances so well against the wound string. It's funny, I have played other 12 strings and they all seem to prefer the standard .10-42. range but the Rick is somehow different, go figure.
Pickups-
My previous 360/12 had hi-gains. I could never get the sound I wanted out of it, but I knew very little about how to set up and play a rick, so I can't say for sure if it was the pickups or me. But my current 360/12 has toasters and they're great! It's an 83' so I dunno whether it has the "sought after" transistors or any of that stuff. I have no clue about any of that, but mine can make all the sounds you'd expect a Rick to be able to make.
Pickup Settings-
Whatever pickups you get, this is probably still true: the reason I never got my old Rick to sound right is I had no clue how to use the "blend" knob, which is like the honest secret weapon of the Rick jangle. With the pickup selector set to "both" pickups on, the 5th knob blends between them, and you can pretty much dial in exactly the tone you want. It's totally great.
Compression!!
You gotta use some kinda compression, whether you wanna sound like someone else or not, the thing about the 12 is to balance the output of all that sound coming from your 12 strings. I started with a dynacomp, which was a simple way to learn what it can do for you. I've sense settled on the Janglebox Nano. And I also use a little secret weapon preamp that has built in compression and compress twice. It's jangle as frack.
That kinda covers it for me.
Since you asked for advice I'll nerd out and tell you what gauge I use- 9/9, 11/11, 20w/8, 26/11, 36/20p, 44/26. I went lighter on some of the plains for balance against the wounds, and also I found a 46 low E to be a little silly, too heavy. For the plains I use Thomastik Infeld which have some kind of bronze coating instead of steel, and seem to feel lighter and aren't quite as trebly. For the wounds I use GHS Nickel Rockers - https://www.ghsstrings.com/products/221 ... -rockerstm which are essentially the halfway point between a flatwound string and a roundwound string. Good balance between flat and round. I found the string type and gauges that work for me, and I just buy the single strings from Juststrings.com
Good luck!
I was like you, and really just wanted one because they're so cool and legendary. I bought a used 1990s with hi-gains and a 12-saddle bridge a couple years ago on Reverb. Even with the 12-saddle bridge I could never get it playing comfortably, and could never get "the sound" I've been wanting to hear, and I sold it when i needed some cash. I got better at playing 12s and dialing in a sound and always wanted to try again.
Early 2019, I found the perfect one in the best price range on Reverb. 1983 360/12 with toaster pickups and a 12-saddle bridge. $2k. I list the price because if you sit on Reverb long enough, a 360/12 with toasters and a 12-saddle bridge WILL pop up for about $2k. I've since seen a few more since then. That's like the magic price as far as I've seen. I got even luckier because this one has some "vintage" things, being an 83' that some people say are important (nerd stuff about neck bracing, I have no idea honestly but ok).
Setup-
Here's what I do know; these guitars need very low action to play comfortably and to "stay in tune". If your action is high, notes will buzz because it's more difficult to fret them with the narrow fretboard, and some strings of a pair will fret sharp, and others wont, which makes it sound "out of tune" when it's actually not. Also high action somehow makes the much maligned "narrow" fretboard feel like a toothpick but with a good setup it plays like any normal width fretboard. You've got to get the neck nearly flat. Don't be intimidated by the truss rods, but their design isn't strong enough for tightening the nuts to pull the neck back alone, most likely the nuts will just dig into the block they sit on. You need to help them with the tension. The trick is, pull the neck back and put a bit of tension on it (like you're trying to bend your strings sharp without a wammy bar), and with the neck pulled back a bit, THEN turn the truss rod screws. You can either place the guitar on a table and have a helper hold the body while you tension the neck and adjust, or hold the body between your legs, put backbow tension on the neck with your left hand, and adjust the truss rod fasteners with your right hand. You really do want it nearly flat!!
Bridge- 6 saddle or 12?
With six saddles, string pairs with big gauge differences will never intonate exactly right. Your high E and B will be fine sine they're unisons. The rest will be a compromise which you'll have to determine for yourself. With a 12 saddle bridge you can intonate each string exactly correct. I've only ever had a 12-saddle bridge on mine, so I can't really tell you if it matters or not. I suspect with the right setup with low action that doesn't sharp notes when you fret them, you can get most of the way there on a 6 saddle bridge, and so many great records have been recorded on 6-saddle rick 12s you can kind of hear how they're slightly not intonated, and with the right setup it'll probably sound great. I will say with my 12-saddle bridge and setup, sometimes I don't even need to tune it at all.
String Gauges-
The next super important thing with Ricks is the string gauges. People stress out about what TYPE of strings to use (flat, round, whatever) but I've tried them all and honestly the gauges are most important, then you dial in the string type based on what sound you're going for. The Ernie Ball 12 string set is the best starting point that I wish I had found out about earlier. It taught me some useful stuff. https://www.guitarcenter.com/Ernie-Ball ... 7998563.gc . Key things about it are the lighter plain strings (9s and 12s instead of 10s and 13s) and a plain string for the high octaves on the just about every string pairing except the low E pairing. That's important because the plain string balances so well against the wound string. It's funny, I have played other 12 strings and they all seem to prefer the standard .10-42. range but the Rick is somehow different, go figure.
Pickups-
My previous 360/12 had hi-gains. I could never get the sound I wanted out of it, but I knew very little about how to set up and play a rick, so I can't say for sure if it was the pickups or me. But my current 360/12 has toasters and they're great! It's an 83' so I dunno whether it has the "sought after" transistors or any of that stuff. I have no clue about any of that, but mine can make all the sounds you'd expect a Rick to be able to make.
Pickup Settings-
Whatever pickups you get, this is probably still true: the reason I never got my old Rick to sound right is I had no clue how to use the "blend" knob, which is like the honest secret weapon of the Rick jangle. With the pickup selector set to "both" pickups on, the 5th knob blends between them, and you can pretty much dial in exactly the tone you want. It's totally great.
Compression!!
You gotta use some kinda compression, whether you wanna sound like someone else or not, the thing about the 12 is to balance the output of all that sound coming from your 12 strings. I started with a dynacomp, which was a simple way to learn what it can do for you. I've sense settled on the Janglebox Nano. And I also use a little secret weapon preamp that has built in compression and compress twice. It's jangle as frack.
That kinda covers it for me.
Since you asked for advice I'll nerd out and tell you what gauge I use- 9/9, 11/11, 20w/8, 26/11, 36/20p, 44/26. I went lighter on some of the plains for balance against the wounds, and also I found a 46 low E to be a little silly, too heavy. For the plains I use Thomastik Infeld which have some kind of bronze coating instead of steel, and seem to feel lighter and aren't quite as trebly. For the wounds I use GHS Nickel Rockers - https://www.ghsstrings.com/products/221 ... -rockerstm which are essentially the halfway point between a flatwound string and a roundwound string. Good balance between flat and round. I found the string type and gauges that work for me, and I just buy the single strings from Juststrings.com
Good luck!
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Ontario_RIC_fan
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2794
- Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:39 pm
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
Very nice JG 360/12!
Are you enjoying the jangle??
Are you enjoying the jangle??
Brian Morton
A Rickenbacker Fan
in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
=========================
67 FG 625
74 JG 4000
76 JG 430
77 JG 620
77 JG 320
79 JG 4001
80 FG 620/12
81 BG 480
91 JG 610
02 BG 620
78 TR7
83 TR25
A Rickenbacker Fan
in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
=========================
67 FG 625
74 JG 4000
76 JG 430
77 JG 620
77 JG 320
79 JG 4001
80 FG 620/12
81 BG 480
91 JG 610
02 BG 620
78 TR7
83 TR25
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
Thanks! Yeah it's great so far. I posted a video over in the "Recordings by members" section, you can see it in action briefly if you're so inclined.Ontario_RIC_fan wrote:Very nice JG 360/12!
Are you enjoying the jangle??
Thanks again.
Re: Some Guidance on Getting a New 360/12?
It was very helpful guidance on getting a New 360/12. All point mentioned in this thread are important and must consider before purchase. Thanks for sharing