PLEASE - Help Me!

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Derrick
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PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by Derrick »

As long as I can remember, I've dreamed of having a Rick 12 string. When that dream finally came true, I was so happy until the "R" tailpiece exploded like so many do! Now I feel like I have a useless guitar because you can't get the "R" tailpiece any longer. I tried the Winfield trapeze tailpiece as a replacement for the "R" since it bolts into the existing holes without modification, but it pulled the screws out slightly (see attached photo) despite using proper gauge strings and tensions. The design of the Winfield puts a lot of stress on the screws since the pattern and number of screws are different then the factory Rickenbacker trapeze.

So now I have to fix the damaged screw holes including the strap button screw, and I want to go back to the stronger L bracket design of the "R" tailpiece but Rickenbacker won't respond, and even Pick Of The Ricks can't get the "R" tailpiece.

(1) I need advice on finding a replacement "R" tailpiece since nobody seems to sell them anymore, and the design of this Wilkins trapeze mount won't do.

(2) I need advice on the best repair method for the damaged screw holes... Since the screws were partially yanked out (as seen in the attached photo), now the screws are a bit loose in the wood. I am very good with my hands, but need advice how to do this right.

I am grateful for any help!
/Derrick
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aceonbass
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by aceonbass »

Have you called RIC about getting a replacement tailpiece? They should be available on an exchange + cash basis. Other than that, you should dowell the holes where the screws have pulled out with maple, then redrill the holes a bit smaller than the previous ones. I've never seen a tailpiece bracket pull out like that. The bracket should be mounted lower so that it doesn't sit so high above the body, which is probably why the high string tension started pulling the screws out.
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doctorwho
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by doctorwho »

I have the Winfield replacement trapeze on my 370/12RM FG and have only experienced a slight issue with the strap bolt (it's not loose, but it could stand to be reseated more firmly).

Follow Dane's directions and you should be able to get your guitar back in shape. Just as an added note, make sure that you leave adequate time for any gluing steps (to let the glue fully harden), don't rush things.
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
maxwell
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by maxwell »

I think that there is something fundamentally wrong. Compare your photo with the ones on Winfield:

https://www.winfieldvintage.com/product ... ersion-kit

The distance the horizontal "hooks" of the adapter bracket are above the face of the guitar seem significantly less than what we see in your photo, your guitar. I can't say why, of course. Perhaps the mounting holes for your R tailpiece were drilled slightly askew, and it just wasn't a noticeable problem with the R...?

Personally, I'd email Winfield. Maybe better, include the link to this discussion when you email them. I'd bet they've seen this before and can suggest a solution. This is their business, they'll know. (I emailed them once; got a reply is less than an hour. I don't think they'll blow you off; worth a shot.)

While dowelling and re-drilling may be the "best" way to resolve this, I'd first try a more conservative fix first (which later could be drilled/drilled out) -- the tried and true, toothpick and glue technique, unless you're going to relocate the holes (in your guitar body) to match your trapeze adaptor bracket. After reconstituting the screw holes in the guitar body, I'd grind/adjust the adapter bracket mounting screw holes holes, elongating them "upward" to allow the adaptor bracket to be relocated downward (inferiorly) as low as the horizontal "hooks" of the adapter will allow. (Yes, this is a salvage operation, but one that will preclude further damage to your guitar; if unsuccessful, consider the replacement cost of a new adapter bracket.... You can easily always go back and buy an adapter/bracket.)

https://www.winfieldvintage.com/trapeze-brackets

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... rap+button

But, I'd check with Winfield for advice first... They'd probably appreciate knowing this. My two cents. Good luck.
Derrick
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by Derrick »

Thank you for the replies. Yes, I have reached out to Rickenbacker and they won't reply back. Horrible customer service. I tried Pick Of The Ricks and they can't get them any more since Rickenbacker is not sending any out. So it seems that if you own a Rickenbacker, and the "R" tailpiece breaks as they are known to do quite a lot, you are out of luck on your guitar unless you figure out some aftermarket alternative to fix the design defect on these guitars.

I am talking to Winfield about the tailpiece mounting issues and my options with this over all issue, and I will let you know what he says. Now that I see the weakness of using this part (and I don't blame Winfield, I blame the option), I just want to use the "L" bracket of the "R" tailpiece because the L will naturally hold better simply by the physics of bottom of the L being on the back while the long part is against the top of the body. In other words, it will stay in place better. If I could just get a good "R" replacement and re-use my old "L" bracket, that would be fab! TBC...
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jdogric12
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by jdogric12 »

Are you trying to use a bracket meant for a guitar with an Accent? (which would have the strap button closer to the back of the guitar)
Derrick
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by Derrick »

No, this is the trapeze tailpiece Winfield makes that is like the factory one Rickenbacker used on some 12 string guitars, except it is designed to bolt on without drilling any new holes or other modification to fit. The original factory trapeze mounting has holes in different places than the factory "R" tailpiece, but the Winfield is designed as a drop in replacement that uses the same holes as the original factory "R" tailpiece. A lot of people use them and seem to hold them in high praise.
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jdogric12
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by jdogric12 »

Derrick wrote:No, this is the trapeze tailpiece Winfield makes that is like the factory one Rickenbacker used on some 12 string guitars, except it is designed to bolt on without drilling any new holes or other modification to fit. The original factory trapeze mounting has holes in different places than the factory "R" tailpiece, but the Winfield is designed as a drop in replacement that uses the same holes as the original factory "R" tailpiece. A lot of people use them and seem to hold them in high praise.
Right, I know exactly what you're talking about, I was taking it one step further, unsure if you're aware there are two types. One has the regular placement for the strap button, and the other has the strap button hole moved further back for Ricks that had factory Accents.
Derrick
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by Derrick »

What? I am not aware of this... I only see a right hand, left hand, and black version on this page: https://www.winfieldvintage.com/trapeze-tailpieces

Can you show me what you are talking about?
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jdogric12
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by jdogric12 »

I see the same as you. I just know that he does have some part that takes that into consideration. Maybe it's another one.
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iiipopes
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by iiipopes »

(Sorry - I just gotta!)
PLEASE - Help Me!
Hmmm...there's a song in there somewhere...Hmmm....
maxwell
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by maxwell »

Derrick wrote:What? I am not aware of this... I only see a right hand, left hand, and black version on this page: https://www.winfieldvintage.com/trapeze-tailpieces

Can you show me what you are talking about?
Here's a re-post of the brackets link in my previous post:

https://www.winfieldvintage.com/trapeze-brackets
maxwell
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by maxwell »

iiipopes wrote:(Sorry - I just gotta!)
PLEASE - Help Me!
Hmmm...there's a song in there somewhere...Hmmm....
Well, there is. Hank Williams had a hit with it decades ago. It goes something like this:

“Please help me, my tail—piece is fallin’ off...”

:) :wink:
Derrick
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by Derrick »

Well, I heard back from Winfield. He said that he has not changed the bracket design and suggests the difference in height is because Rickenbacker;s original brackets weren't consistent back then so the screw hole positioning could be different over time.

He believes that the height has nothing to do with this and places blame on Rickenbacker using machine threads on the strap bolt that holds the bracket to the body. instead of using wood threads. He also offered to refund this product which I think says a lot about how he stands behind his product and how he is as a business person. Kudos there.

Still, it doesn't help the bind I'm in. I need to fix the guitar (which I can do), but I now need a "R" tailpiece so I can use the original "L" bracket which is a stronger design well suited for the tension of 12 strings. I am not blaming Winfield's product, but it is not working for my guitar and I'm not takinng any more chances using it. How is it that I can't get a simple part like a replacement "R" tailpiece for a world famous guitar? Without one, this is a worthless hunk of wood. I blame Rickenbacker for this mess. :(
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jdogric12
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Re: PLEASE - Help Me!

Post by jdogric12 »

What year guitar? 6 or 12? The holes on the R bracket changed at some point too in the 70's or 80's, I can't remember when. If you can do a tracing of what you need, scan and email, I'll look through my parts bin and see if I have one.
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