Advice on best models + modification question
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
@Dom,
Jim Martin FNM tones on a Rickenbacker is EXACTLY what would suit my originals band.
In your opinion would a 350 with Hi gain be better than a 660 with Toasters for this tone?
When you throw Top Petty stiff into the mix, is there an obvious winner?
@jdogric12
Thanks for the advice regarding upgraded pots. I think I'll TRY to get a balance for Hard Rock/TP using an off the shelf Ric (620, 660 or maybe 350)
But if I do end up modding to a mix of different PU's. I'll 100% keep this in mind.
Cheers.
Jim Martin FNM tones on a Rickenbacker is EXACTLY what would suit my originals band.
In your opinion would a 350 with Hi gain be better than a 660 with Toasters for this tone?
When you throw Top Petty stiff into the mix, is there an obvious winner?
@jdogric12
Thanks for the advice regarding upgraded pots. I think I'll TRY to get a balance for Hard Rock/TP using an off the shelf Ric (620, 660 or maybe 350)
But if I do end up modding to a mix of different PU's. I'll 100% keep this in mind.
Cheers.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Awesome! what is your amp of choice? If you plan on modding, and can try each out, go with the most comfortable otherwise go with the one you can’t ever see yourself putting down. The rest you can sort out. 500K pots will brighten up a guitar. There’s tons of tones hidden in a Ric.
As for why a 350...The reason I prefer a 3 pickup guitar is for out of phase options. Three pickup guitars get clumsy with the switching no matter what. Dane did an amazing 3 HB1 wiring setup for my 370WB...5 push pulls, all 500K and I asked for everything...essentially to find the best parallel Brian May tones. Coil taps, strange tone stacks and phase options for all. With that one I eventually settled with the opposite of the Jackson Browne/ Susanna Hoffs route with a HB1, HB1 and the HiGain at the bridge. Fiber top HiGains from the 80’s work best for me for lead bridge punch. The HB1’s are great and versatile and I’d dial in quack or twang or smooth with the front two and the jangle from the bridge. Great recording guitar but too much fiddling live where it was always lost in the mix unless I was on the bridge. So I used the best ideas while trying the least amount of mods on the 350 and it looks stock.
I changed the 5th knob to a mid pickup volume and wired the pickup permanently out of phase directly to the jack...no tone stack. I changed the neck tone pot to a push pull that removes the tone circuit or engages a mid scoop, boost inductor. It was called the Torres mid boost. There are variations. The 3 way works like a 2 pickup guitar...tone stack and neck pickup engaged is quacky on one end and Sabbath tone dump on the other...neck tone stack off is “why don’t they come this way” brilliant. Then I dial the mid pickup in as the situation calls like an EQ to focus or snarkify the tone. Boost pedal and amp at lead tone solo volume. Volume pedal after boost does the jangle clean/lead tone deal. Same deal with software amps.
I also do out of phase on my 2 pickup Ricks and the 5th knob gets all sorts of new sounds. I have a 330 With heavy flats too and OOP HiGains can dial in something like creamy toasters via the 5th knob. They all will jangle but with the right setup they do tons more.
Small world! My project 350 body is from that guitar! Buying some flamed maple for the back and will be working on it again after my 2nd shot in a couple weeks!jdogric12 wrote:I have the replica of the Jackson Browne prototype that Len Moskowitz commissioned Larry Davis to make (from a stock 350 Liverpool 24-fretter). It is hg/hg/hb with a very unusual wiring layout. Search for that here and if I get some time I'll try to make a demo.
As for why a 350...The reason I prefer a 3 pickup guitar is for out of phase options. Three pickup guitars get clumsy with the switching no matter what. Dane did an amazing 3 HB1 wiring setup for my 370WB...5 push pulls, all 500K and I asked for everything...essentially to find the best parallel Brian May tones. Coil taps, strange tone stacks and phase options for all. With that one I eventually settled with the opposite of the Jackson Browne/ Susanna Hoffs route with a HB1, HB1 and the HiGain at the bridge. Fiber top HiGains from the 80’s work best for me for lead bridge punch. The HB1’s are great and versatile and I’d dial in quack or twang or smooth with the front two and the jangle from the bridge. Great recording guitar but too much fiddling live where it was always lost in the mix unless I was on the bridge. So I used the best ideas while trying the least amount of mods on the 350 and it looks stock.
I changed the 5th knob to a mid pickup volume and wired the pickup permanently out of phase directly to the jack...no tone stack. I changed the neck tone pot to a push pull that removes the tone circuit or engages a mid scoop, boost inductor. It was called the Torres mid boost. There are variations. The 3 way works like a 2 pickup guitar...tone stack and neck pickup engaged is quacky on one end and Sabbath tone dump on the other...neck tone stack off is “why don’t they come this way” brilliant. Then I dial the mid pickup in as the situation calls like an EQ to focus or snarkify the tone. Boost pedal and amp at lead tone solo volume. Volume pedal after boost does the jangle clean/lead tone deal. Same deal with software amps.
I also do out of phase on my 2 pickup Ricks and the 5th knob gets all sorts of new sounds. I have a 330 With heavy flats too and OOP HiGains can dial in something like creamy toasters via the 5th knob. They all will jangle but with the right setup they do tons more.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Hi Dom,
I'm using a Fender Hot Rod Deville 212 IV.
I don't use any overdrive from the amp, just EQ & the clean channel for my effects board.
Thanks for the advice re 350 or 660/620, the issue is finding a store or person that has one of the models to try out.....it's very slim pickings.
I've even posted to Facebook groups promising quick payment should someone want to part with any of the above and I've received zero responses.
At this stage I feel it will be a long time before I get to test out the different models people have suggested to me on this thread, let alone own one.
I'm using a Fender Hot Rod Deville 212 IV.
I don't use any overdrive from the amp, just EQ & the clean channel for my effects board.
Thanks for the advice re 350 or 660/620, the issue is finding a store or person that has one of the models to try out.....it's very slim pickings.
I've even posted to Facebook groups promising quick payment should someone want to part with any of the above and I've received zero responses.
At this stage I feel it will be a long time before I get to test out the different models people have suggested to me on this thread, let alone own one.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Don't feel bad - many of us here have been at this for literally decades. I got my first Rick in 1996 and I still feel like one of the young ones here.panpanini wrote: At this stage I feel it will be a long time before I get to test out the different models people have suggested to me on this thread, let alone own one.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Well, that's reassuring ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
But yeah, not many official Rickenbacker retailers in Ireland, only 1 actually and most of their 2021 stock is already sold on preorder.
I'm going to have to keep on top of Reverb.com & Irish vintage stores that sell pre-owned, of which there is only 2 in my locality (state)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
But yeah, not many official Rickenbacker retailers in Ireland, only 1 actually and most of their 2021 stock is already sold on preorder.
I'm going to have to keep on top of Reverb.com & Irish vintage stores that sell pre-owned, of which there is only 2 in my locality (state)
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
It's a lifelong interest. Strap in and enjoy the ride!
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Funny, the cuurent SH model has all HB pickups and a 5-way Strat switch.
The guitar she owns, that is.
The guitar she owns, that is.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
You need to read my 20+ page thread on my 3-pickup wiring modifications on the factory forum. If you are interested, I'll send you the schematics. PM me for an email address.Dom wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:50 pm Awesome! what is your amp of choice? If you plan on modding, and can try each out, go with the most comfortable otherwise go with the one you can’t ever see yourself putting down. The rest you can sort out. 500K pots will brighten up a guitar. There’s tons of tones hidden in a Ric.
Small world! My project 350 body is from that guitar! Buying some flamed maple for the back and will be working on it again after my 2nd shot in a couple weeks!jdogric12 wrote:I have the replica of the Jackson Browne prototype that Len Moskowitz commissioned Larry Davis to make (from a stock 350 Liverpool 24-fretter). It is hg/hg/hb with a very unusual wiring layout. Search for that here and if I get some time I'll try to make a demo.
As for why a 350...The reason I prefer a 3 pickup guitar is for out of phase options. Three pickup guitars get clumsy with the switching no matter what. Dane did an amazing 3 HB1 wiring setup for my 370WB...5 push pulls, all 500K and I asked for everything...essentially to find the best parallel Brian May tones. Coil taps, strange tone stacks and phase options for all. With that one I eventually settled with the opposite of the Jackson Browne/ Susanna Hoffs route with a HB1, HB1 and the HiGain at the bridge. Fiber top HiGains from the 80’s work best for me for lead bridge punch. The HB1’s are great and versatile and I’d dial in quack or twang or smooth with the front two and the jangle from the bridge. Great recording guitar but too much fiddling live where it was always lost in the mix unless I was on the bridge. So I used the best ideas while trying the least amount of mods on the 350 and it looks stock.
I changed the 5th knob to a mid pickup volume and wired the pickup permanently out of phase directly to the jack...no tone stack. I changed the neck tone pot to a push pull that removes the tone circuit or engages a mid scoop, boost inductor. It was called the Torres mid boost. There are variations. The 3 way works like a 2 pickup guitar...tone stack and neck pickup engaged is quacky on one end and Sabbath tone dump on the other...neck tone stack off is “why don’t they come this way” brilliant. Then I dial the mid pickup in as the situation calls like an EQ to focus or snarkify the tone. Boost pedal and amp at lead tone solo volume. Volume pedal after boost does the jangle clean/lead tone deal. Same deal with software amps.
I also do out of phase on my 2 pickup Ricks and the 5th knob gets all sorts of new sounds. I have a 330 With heavy flats too and OOP HiGains can dial in something like creamy toasters via the 5th knob. They all will jangle but with the right setup they do tons more.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
Thanks, Pm sent! I found your mid pickup 5th knob volume mod some years back and run it out of phase on my 350. My unending goal is a 3 pickup guitar that does as much as it can quickly and easily without looking at it. Rotaries, banks of switches that risk accidental mutes and 5 ways need not apply…this time, but we thank you for your prior service in the name of science.
SCIENCE!
SCIENCE!
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
My 5th knob mod is not out of phase. You will see that when you get my diagrams. And since my mods retain the original controls and their original functions, it passes the "front-of-the-stage" test and if anybody else picks it up to play, there is no fiddling with anything.Dom wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 10:14 pm Thanks, Pm sent! I found your mid pickup 5th knob volume mod some years back and run it out of phase on my 350. My unending goal is a 3 pickup guitar that does as much as it can quickly and easily without looking at it. Rotaries, banks of switches that risk accidental mutes and 5 ways need not apply…this time, but we thank you for your prior service in the name of science.
SCIENCE!
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
I do out of phase on purpose! I run most of my guitars with some form of out of phase. Really fun univibe effect when they are on a separate volume…which is why I need to do some repairs. It’s like having a sweep eq on an otherwise stock 2 pickup blend knob equipped Ric too.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
I finally did a dedicated demo of the out of phase pickups. Not everyone’s cup of tea because it’s coffee. I have a dry out which you hear in the beginning then I layer the amp modeling on top with an a+b switch & volume pedal. I go through the phase sweep demo at the beginning. During the jam I try to stay in the middle and change the sound with the blend.
https://youtu.be/KGyxOUrQeG8?si=drc0RS6_KqvnT7nU
https://youtu.be/KGyxOUrQeG8?si=drc0RS6_KqvnT7nU
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Re: Advice on best models + modification question
I’m not a huge fan of hollow’s and semi hollows in general, so I’d vote for the 620, or 660, and I also love my 650D.
Re: Advice on best models + modification question
See above. Since the Rickenbacker factory forum is down, I will describe my mod using a push-pull on the 5th knob:
1) push-pull down:
Selector switch:
up - neck pickup
middle - neck and bridge pickup with inline capacitor
down - bridge pickup with capacitor
2) push-pull up:
Selector switch:
up - middle pickup
middle - middle and bridge pickups, no inline capacitor
down - bridge pickup, no inline capacitor
Wiring the guitar this way passes the "five foot test." Five feet from the stage, you don't know there are any mods, and the added bonus is that all controls function as the factory installed them.
1) push-pull down:
Selector switch:
up - neck pickup
middle - neck and bridge pickup with inline capacitor
down - bridge pickup with capacitor
2) push-pull up:
Selector switch:
up - middle pickup
middle - middle and bridge pickups, no inline capacitor
down - bridge pickup, no inline capacitor
Wiring the guitar this way passes the "five foot test." Five feet from the stage, you don't know there are any mods, and the added bonus is that all controls function as the factory installed them.