360-12 truss rods tight, neck wont straighten out

[doombuggy]

well it looks like the Rick 36012 I bought a while back is in need of surgery...
My tech has worked on it for the past 3 weeks trying to get the truss rods to straighten up. he thinks the rods are ok and not broken because the nuts do tighten but no neck movement.
He's not use to working on Ricks but he's a good luthier.
Im coming to experts in hope of saving the guitar, do you think I need to pull the rods and replace them?
suggestions?
H E L P !
t

[doombuggy]

I just read through the "Unable to get my 620's neck straight...please help" this sounds like a similar situation....
I think the nuts on the body end are pretty far up in the holes....
Who wants to tackle this if my guy doesnt want to fool with it??
whos the best person to send it to that can get it back to me in a month or so?
thanks t

[doombuggy]

any suggestions on who to send this to for repair?
whos the Rick 12 string king?

[doombuggy]

I pulled the rods and theyre fine, the wood has allowed the body end nuts to go way up into the neck and some around the plate/ headstock. see pics...





before I start I have a few questions....

where can you buy the thin "Hot Stuff" glue? Hardware store?
and when applying the glue to hardened wood around the holes how much do you build up?
how do you keep the holes cleared so you can reinsert the rods.
thanks t

[windchimp]

As it turns out I'm performing the same surgery to my 4001V63 right now.

I got some of the water thin glue (Zap CA with the pink label) from a local hobby store - that seems to be the primary use for this stuff. Arts & Crafts stores like Michael's carry the Zap CA+ which I believe is a bit thicker and not recommended for this repair.

I cleaned out the cavities and applied a couple of drops, waited an hour and repeated - did this again for a total of 3 applications. It's resting comfortably right now while it waits for the rods to be spiffed up. I cleaned all of the masking tape and gunk off of them in preparation for shrink wrapping. Tomorrow I have to snag some heat-shrink tubing from work (we get the stuff in bulk - easier than messing around with those 4" pieces everybody seems to sell nowadays). A quick trip to one of the parts bins and I should be able to find some appropriately sized SS washer to help fill the cavities so the rods are back to their intended position with the acorn heads just peeking out of the cavities. Then its back to the sheet metal shop and have one of the guys chase the threads with an 8-32 die.

Hopefully this does the trick....

[jingle_jangle]

Don't use hardware store CA glue...in general it's too thick (viscous) to penetrate. Hobby stores are the source for Zap CA in the PINK labelled container. This stuff is water-thin and won't clog anything except the wood pores. Drip it carefully into the recesses , waiting a minute or two between applications, and stop when the wood won't soak up any more.

Don't be afraid to add some external-toothed lock washers (star washers) of the right size to the body end of the rods to bring the acorn nut tip flush with the wood of the neck heel around the recess. This'll bring your truss rods back to where they should be in the headstock and help future adjustments.

[doombuggy]

I def plan on finding the thin Hot Stuff or Zap CA, Ill have to see if I can find it at an Arts & Crafts store.

do you put the truss rods back in or leave them out??? just leave them out right??:oops:
I plan on building up the neck base with SS washers also....do you think I should build up the space right behind the nut where the plate goes?
thanks t

[jingle_jangle]

Ummm, you don't want washers at the body end, unless they're star-type (external points) lock washers. They need to grab the wood, or the rod's going to want to rotate when you snug it down.

[windchimp]

Hmmmm....yes, I did leave out the "star" washer bit in my diatribe didn't I? Thanks for pointing that out Paul.

Tommy - most of the "craft" stores around here sell the Zap CA+ with a green label - you do NOT want that. If you can't find it locally there are lots of online places selling it - Google is your friend! And yes, the rods are out for the glue application.

[doombuggy]

I'll look around locally for the glue but I may have to get it from Stew Mac...
theres a Hobby Store/model train store here or a Micheal's and I will see if they may sell it.
t

[jingle_jangle]

Stew-Mac #10 would be the one you want. It's pricey and the brush may get into the way, but...

[doombuggy]

hey I went to the local Hobby store and they had the pink Zap so Im good to go...
my next question after applying the glue 3 times and letting that dry, how long do you wait to put the rods back in?
how many star washer should I put on the end to make up for the 1/2 in. gap?
the acorn nuts are slightly bash in like someone tapped on them at some point so that could be where some of the gap comes from...
what are you using shrink wrap on??

thanks for all the good advise,
t

[jingle_jangle]

Use enough washers to make the tip of the acorn nut flush with the heel surface, then add one more washer for compression. It wouldn't hurt to carefully drip some super glue onto the washers to lock them into place somewhat before inserting the rod for the final time.

[johnallg]

The heat shrink is to replace the masking tape on the rods. If your masking tape is in good shape, you can just reinsert the rods. If it is all torn up from removal (usual), either replace the tape or get heatshrink tubing.

[doombuggy]

I decided against doing this myself,
this needs to be sent to a real Rickenbacker surgeon or I need to sell it off as a project...

what would you guys do?
t