Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Setup, repair and restoration of Rickenbacker Instruments

Moderator: jingle_jangle

Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (thevince) » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:36 am

Hello.
I have a 2004 330/6 Montezuma Brown.
The back of the neck becomes sticky after playing a few minutes.
I want to clean the back of the neck and fretboard during the next string change.

I searched the forum for cleaning recommendations.
Unfortunately, some products mentioned are not available or very expensive in my country (Japan).

What is the current best recommended product to clean this guitar?
I read some old recommendations and noted some products change chemicals and become no longer recommended.
I am also wondering if products vary between countries.

Is Music Nomad product safe for Montezuma Brown finish?
It is available here.

Thank you.
(thevince)
New member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:23 am

Typically you don’t want the kind of finish products that are marketed for use on musical instruments. Those are usually low quality and can even have silicon additives (which are not good for the finish).

I’m unfamiliar with the sticky issue you are describing. But for cleaning the neck, I would suggest a high quality automotive cleaner wax. Zymöl brand is my favorite, but there are other good options from Mother’s and Meguire’s that achieve the same thing (and perhaps others in Japan). The main thing is finding one that does not contain silicone.

If you really need to clean the surface before polishing/wax, I would suggest using naphtha (which is the same as lighter fluid). It will not harm the Rickenbacker’s CV finish and will quickly evaporate after cleaning any grease or dirt off the surface.
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (doctorwho) » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:11 am

collin wrote:... silicon additives ....

Although technically correct (because silicone contains silicon), that should really be silicone additives ... silicon is the element, silicone is the (surface-active agent) molecule that causes problems ... :shock: :? :lol: 8)
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
User avatar
(doctorwho)
Veteran RRF member
 
Posts: 12298
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:28 pm
Location: Costa Mesa, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:21 am

doctorwho wrote:
collin wrote:... silicon additives ....

Although technically correct (because silicone contains silicon), that should really be silicone additives ... silicon is the element, silicone is the (surface-active agent) molecule that causes problems ... :shock: :? :lol: 8)



Autocorrect Typo.

(See second paragraph above).
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (thevince) » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:43 am

Thank you for the recommendation.
Would Zippo fluid like this be recommended?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/pack-Zipp ... B000YUBR0S

Unfortunately, the cleaner wax brands mentioned are not easily available in Japan.
Is wax required after Zippo fluid?
I am mainly concerned about cleaning more than appearance at this time.
If Zippo fluid will clean, it is OK for now.

Thank you again.

EDIT Update:
Is Brillianize Plastic Cleaner recommended on the entire guitar (body, plastic, metal)?
I saw this mentioned previously and it is available in Japan.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Brilliani ... B00IUFT4D6
(thevince)
New member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (jdogric12) » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm

Dumb question, but have you already tried just a damp, cotton cloth and some elbow grease? It would have to be pretty nasty dirt for that not to work. After a good cleaning of an old instrument, I find it's more about keeping it clean than getting it clean. Ounce of prevention and all that.
User avatar
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10579
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:00 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:53 pm

thevince wrote:Thank you for the recommendation.
Would Zippo fluid like this be recommended?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/pack-Zipp ... B000YUBR0S

Unfortunately, the cleaner wax brands mentioned are not easily available in Japan.
Is wax required after Zippo fluid?
I am mainly concerned about cleaning more than appearance at this time.
If Zippo fluid will clean, it is OK for now.

Thank you again.

EDIT Update:
Is Brillianize Plastic Cleaner recommended on the entire guitar (body, plastic, metal)?
I saw this mentioned previously and it is available in Japan.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Brilliani ... B00IUFT4D6


I am unfamiliar with Zippo brand fuel, but I do know Ronsonol brand is 100% naphtha, which is what you want.

But bear in mind, the naphtha is purely for eliminating dirt and grime off a surface, not for treating or polishing the paint itself.

I would not recommend the plastic cleaner you linked above. There is nothing plastic about the finish of a Rickenbacker, it's a paint so you need cleaner wax for paint.

As Jason suggests, try with a damp cloth first and if that doesn't work, then naphtha followed by automotive-grade cleaner wax. There are most certainly automotive-grade cleaner waxes in Japan, of some variety.
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (cjj) » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:55 pm

collin wrote:I would not recommend the plastic cleaner you linked above. There is nothing plastic about the finish of a Rickenbacker, it's a paint so you need cleaner wax for paint.


There are a lot of things that qualify as plastics, even if they are sprayed on like paint. RIC instruments are finished with a "clear coat" which until sometime in 2010 was a "CV" or Conversion Varnish finish. That material was an acid cured polyurethane. Polyurethane is generally considered to be a type of plastic.

Since 2010, RIC changed to using a UV cured polyester for the clear coat. Polyester is also generally considered to be a plastic material.

As for using Brillianize plastic cleaner, RIC uses it in the factory (or at least did in 2012) in the final cleaning steps:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=407185&p=774446&hilit=brillianize#p774446

As noted in the linked post, it does contain silicone, which could be a problem if you wanted to refinish the guitar, especially if the clear coat is damaged, but should be safe for cleaning a finish in good condition.
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
User avatar
(cjj)
RRF Moderator
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:17 pm

cjj wrote:
Since 2010, RIC changed to using a UV cured polyester for the clear coat. Polyester is also generally considered to be a plastic material.



From what I understand, RIC only used UV finishes for a very short window around 2010 and discontinued that paint system because it was proving to be problematic.

Interesting about Brillianize, wasn't aware they used that (though I certainly wouldn't, if it includes silicone).
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (jdogric12) » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:18 am

collin wrote:From what I understand, RIC only used UV finishes for a very short window around 2010 and discontinued that paint system because it was proving to be problematic.


Wow - I did not know that.
User avatar
(jdogric12)
Rick-a-holic
 
Posts: 10579
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:00 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (thevince) » Tue May 04, 2021 11:58 am

collin wrote:I am unfamiliar with Zippo brand fuel, but I do know Ronsonol brand is 100% naphtha, which is what you want.


I think I found Ronsonol available in Japan. Is this the same you recommended?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000CZ0RQA

Would this also be safe to use on a 2018 4003S Fireglo? Thank you.
(thevince)
New member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (scott_s) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:00 pm

jdogric12 wrote:
collin wrote:From what I understand, RIC only used UV finishes for a very short window around 2010 and discontinued that paint system because it was proving to be problematic.

Wow - I did not know that.

Me neither! Are they back to CV, or...?
User avatar
(scott_s)
Veteran RRF member
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 12:59 pm
Location: CID

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:57 pm

thevince wrote:
collin wrote:I am unfamiliar with Zippo brand fuel, but I do know Ronsonol brand is 100% naphtha, which is what you want.


I think I found Ronsonol available in Japan. Is this the same you recommended?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000CZ0RQA

Would this also be safe to use on a 2018 4003S Fireglo? Thank you.


That is it, yes!

It's naphtha in a repackaged bottle. Perfectly safe to clean dirt and other organic matter off the finish (including the 2018). Just put some on a rag or paper towel and gently wipe the area, it will evaporate almost immediately (which is one of its benefits).


scott_s wrote:
jdogric12 wrote:
collin wrote:From what I understand, RIC only used UV finishes for a very short window around 2010 and discontinued that paint system because it was proving to be problematic.

Wow - I did not know that.

Me neither! Are they back to CV, or...?


I don't recall, I know it's not a UV system nowadays but I don't think it's the old CV either. Some kind of catalyzed finish.
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (thevince) » Fri May 07, 2021 3:42 am

Thank you! I ordered some Ronsonol. Is it safe to use everywhere on the instruments such as body and frets?
I will also try some damp cloth as suggested. I just got a new (to me!) 2018 4003S that needs some cleaning.
(thevince)
New member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Cleaning Guitar in Japan

Postby (collin) » Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm

Sure yes it’s safe to use in any surface, but do keep in mind it’s not intended as a general cleaner, it’s a solvent to get the sticky material off the neck. It gets dirt and organic matter off the paint surface, that’s it.

For just general routine cleaning, and especially for maintenance of the finish, you will need an automobile grade cleaner wax.
User avatar
(collin)
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Corona, CA, USA


Return to "Vibrola" Rickenbacker Technical Forum: By Paul Wilczynski

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests