Most break angle from a 620/625?

Setup, repair and restoration of Rickenbacker Instruments

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Ontario_RIC_fan
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by Ontario_RIC_fan »

The heavy gauge strings were on that short scaled 1996 guitar for a reason.

You can't keep it in tune if you don't use them.

I learned that the hard way with my 320.
Brian Morton
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in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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maxwell
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by maxwell »

collin wrote:You pretty much took my little MS Paint graphic and brought it to life!
Well, I was entirely inspired by your photo. :D

When I put the Accent on with the new spring (probably in November), I'll use some inexpensive wound 12s during the experimental phase, and when things look good, put on flat wound 12s.

I'll be back!
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by maxwell »

It's pretty well understood that the spring height does influence the break angle of the strings over the bridge, regardless of the specific guitar model (with Accent vibrato)....

So, I was about to order that vintage style spring that Winfield sells. Before ordering, once again, I studied the photos he has comparing the vintage style (with rubber bumpers) vs. the modern style (with felt pads), and re-read his descriptive, comparative narrative. I pulled my spring out and now, to me, today, it seems that I do have a shorter, vintage style spring -- it is stock on the RM 1996 reissue, and it has (had) rubber bumpers; I put some felt-like moleskin on it to make it functionally less tall/high.

I took a couple of photos and thought I'd post them here. Maybe someone has one of the springs and can measure the springs height as it sits inverted. My spring is 13 mm high. Can anyone definitely tell me which spring I have (short vintage vs. tall modern)?
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Accent spring without ruler
Accent spring without ruler
Accent spring with ruler, 13 mm high
Accent spring with ruler, 13 mm high
maxwell
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by maxwell »

Well, I got tired of waiting for one of you guys to disassemble your guitar and measure your Accent spring height. :wink: :lol:

So, I contacted Winfield via ebay (where he also sells these, in addition to Reverb), attached my 13 mm measurement photo, and asked how high/tall his spring was. Got a quick reply: 10 mm

I had some ebucks waiting to be used, so I used those to help make the ebay purchase of the Winfield spring. I'll give this a try and see how it goes. I'm optimistic.
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collin
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by collin »

Eh, not much traffic here these days, things move slower.

Anyways, here is a standard 60s Accent spring from a guitar with perfect break angle. It’s exactly 10mm, so the Winfield part is correct.

I think you’ll find those extra 3mm cause all sorts of problems, since it raises the height of the anchor point on the vibrato. And even one degree makes a huge difference in regards to break angle.
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by admin »

I am glad this information is recorded here so that others may benefit from it in the future.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

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maxwell
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by maxwell »

My Winfield spring arrived yesterday. I cleaned the moleskin off my RIC spring and replace the rubber bumpers. Below are a few comparative photos of the two springs, the RIC Modern vs. the Winfield Vintage. (I don't know when I'll get around to assembling and stringing my guitar....)
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Spring comparison 1
Spring comparison 1
Spring comparison 2
Spring comparison 2
Spring height comparison
Spring height comparison
maxwell
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Re: Most break angle from a 620/625?

Post by maxwell »

Time flies! Well, it's been a while, and I thought I'd post photos & commentary on my Winfield (short) Vintage Accent Vibrato Spring. I intended to install a Mastery bridge (and new strings, of course) all at the same time. On those occasions that I remembered to check on bridge availability, none were in stock. I finally acquired a bridge a short while ago. This is my model 1996 (very similar to a 325C64):

1. (see photo #1): Here's a profile shot, and you can see the break angle is not the greatest. However, at least the guitar is playable now. (You can imagine what the taller RIC modern spring would be like.)

2. (see photo #2): Here's what happens when you lower the movable Accent portion: the vibrato arm becomes positioned lower and now gets hung up on the control knobs; skims across the top of the mixer and stops at the bridge volume. Loosen the arm's screw a little and you can lift it over the knob. I decided just to take the arm off until I really want to use it.

3. (see photo #3): I adjusted my nut slots slightly and adjusted the Mastery bridge height (overall & string saddles). I was able to intonate the low strings (6-4) pretty well, for not being individual saddles. The high three strings were troublesome. The strings were all flat and I stopped adjusting the saddles forward when I saw that the saddle adjustment screws were fading deeper into the saddles; did not want to lose screw engagement. So, those strings are still slightly flat; I can't hear anything wrong.

I have very slight string buzz on my B string, all up and down the headstock half of the neck; seems like the neck needs a little more relief. I was hoping the buzz was isolated to one high fret. But, I am not going to mess with the truss rods. The buzz does not come through the amp, and is just barely noticeable. Maybe some unintentional relief will appears after a few days of sitting. (I put D'Addario Chromes, flat wound, 12-52 on. I have doubts that heavier E and A strings would affect the vibrato significantly further. I have some TI George Benson Jazz Strings in reserve, 12-53; less overall tension.)

My only real disappointment was finding that the neck (& middle) pickup tone control did NOT change the tone whatsoever. I examined the electronics, measured everything, check grounding continuity, spent hours on YouTube seeing how to do all this. I did resolder a couple of suspicious connections; no change.

Pots: I found it easiest to measure across the outer terminals directly. I thought this might not work properly, since they are wired up, but YouTube guys do this. The tone pots are 189 and 184 k ohms. The two volume pots are 98 and 99. The mixer pot is 188. So, nowhere near 330, esp. the volume pots.

Caps: The two main tone caps are 0.057 and 0.058 uF; slightly exceeds 20% tolerance. Surprisingly, this guitar has a treble cap, measuring at 0.005 uF.

No tone control at neck: I measured pot resistance throughout the entire range of each pot; full off thru full on. All pots responded as they should, 0 thru max respective pot resistance values, and they all seem to be audio/log pots. So, I know (think) the errant neck tone pot seems to be OK, not defective as it ranges without problem from 0--184 k ohms. I could not find any ground shorts when I inspected the wires in detail. There has to be something fundamentally wrong here. Mis-wired? I don't think so. Anyone here have a probable cause? I'm going to open up my 330 guitars and see how they are wired, make comparisons. I'm hoping to see something different that will clue me in on the problem.
String break angle with Winfield spring
String break angle with Winfield spring
Altered Accent arm position with new spring
Altered Accent arm position with new spring
Mastery Bridge intonation screws
Mastery Bridge intonation screws
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