4003s/8 deliberation...

[chromium]

Hello, this is my first post but I've been a lurker here for some time.

I went today and checked out a 4003s/8 that is currently at a pawn shop about 30 min from my house. This bass is currently on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICKENBACKER-8- ... 27cbf4bbde

...and apparently was for sale at Elderly prior to this:
http://www.elderly.com/items/55U-2570.htm



The bass is gorgeous, they seem a little flexible on the price, but the setup on it is horrendous. The strings are about 5/8" off the board in the middle of the neck, and I was concerned having read about some 4003s/8s with neck issues.

I've setup a lot of basses over the years, and the ones that rivaled this (recalling my 70s Ovation Magnum-1 and '81 Ibanez ST-980 8-string) took days of incremental adjustment to get the proper neck relief dialed in. In other words, more than I could attempt in the shop prior to purchase...

I admittedly haven't had enough experience adjusting Rics (despite owning two 4001s that were setup nicely when I got them) and I doubt this shop does either. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this bass, if there is anything I can check easily on the spot, or if I should just pass on this one.

Thank you for any advice!

[aceonbass]

I have a little bit of experience with 8-string Ricks As long as the neck isn't separating from the body halves, you should be able to cure any neck issues with adjustment. I saw this on Ebay last week in the first auction starting at $3500.00. I was the one who told them what model it was and that $2500.00 was a more realistic price. Since it's a pawn shop, they probably don't have much in it, so they might go lower. If you do get it, please turn the bridge pickup surround around and mount it correctly. It looks so goofy when people put 'em on backwards because they're afraid of cutting the value in half by redrilling the four holes.

[antipodean]

Also check to see whether the relief involves the neck collapsing into the neck pick-up rout. This can happen without wing separation and can be fixed, but is a great argument for ratcheting down the price.......

[bassduke49]

Were you able to determine if it is a metallic red ("Ruby")? Technically, it's too late for Ruby, but it looks like Ruby to me. If it is just a solid non-metallic fire-engine red, then it is "Red" which would fit its manufacturing time. I noticed in the detail shots that when someone restrung it with the octave strings on the left (when viewed from the front) that they simply filed larger grooves in the nut for the juxtaposed strings which might make the thin octave strings slop around in the original slots. That may need to be addressed, too.

[chromium]

If you do get it, please turn the bridge pickup surround around and mount it correctly. It looks so goofy when people put 'em on backwards because they're afraid of cutting the value in half by redrilling the four holes.

Yeah I noticed that horseshoe surround was installed backwards. Looks like the original bridge pickup assembly mentioned in the Elderly ad is long gone as well.

Also check to see whether the relief involves the neck collapsing into the neck pick-up rout. This can happen without wing separation and can be fixed, but is a great argument for ratcheting down the price.......

Just curious - would evidence of this be outwardly visible, or would I have to remove the pickguard?

From what I was able to observe, it seemed to me like most of the problem was in the neck relief as opposed to the neck+body geometry. Fretting it at the 20th still left a huge gap between the strings and fretboard mid-neck.

Were you able to determine if it is a metallic red ("Ruby")? Technically, it's too late for Ruby, but it looks like Ruby to me. If it is just a solid non-metallic fire-engine red, then it is "Red" which would fit its manufacturing time. I noticed in the detail shots that when someone restrung it with the octave strings on the left (when viewed from the front) that they simply filed larger grooves in the nut for the juxtaposed strings which might make the thin octave strings slop around in the original slots. That may need to be addressed, too.

This one turned out to be just the opaque red. Didn't appear to have a metallic base with candy red top coat or anything like that.

Good point on the quality of the string reversal job - that and the bad state of setup might give me some leverage on it.

[aceonbass]

I've got a reissue horseshoe pickup on my custom 4008, and a 9K Toaster in the neck. Love the big sound these vintage style pickups deliver.

[cheyenne]

I cant find a pic, but I'm 99% sure this bass came from Mike Parks. I definately remember a red 8-string with a reverse mounted horsey in his photo gallery a few years back.

How many could there be?

[antipodean]

Also check to see whether the relief involves the neck collapsing into the neck pick-up rout. This can happen without wing separation and can be fixed, but is a great argument for ratcheting down the price.......

Just curious - would evidence of this be outwardly visible, or would I have to remove the pickguard?

From what I was able to observe, it seemed to me like most of the problem was in the neck relief as opposed to the neck+body geometry. Fretting it at the 20th still left a huge gap between the strings and fretboard mid-neck.

Once relief has been dialled out of the neck via truss rod adjustment, you can check on neck/body geometry using a straight edge. If the top of the fret board is parallel to a straight edge resting on the pickguard, then there's no issue. If, however, the fretboard is angled up relative to the straight edge (i.e there is an incline from body to peghead) then the neck has begun to move into the pickup rout. From the sound of it, this bass needs quite a bit of neck adjustment before the neck geometry issue can be meaningfully investigated.

[aceonbass]

I've seen a lot of Ricks with straight necks and negative neck angles, but it doesn't mean the "neck is moving into the route". It simply means it's flexing slightly at the weak point caused by the large pickup route there.

[antipodean]

I've seen a lot of Ricks with straight necks and negative neck angles, but it doesn't mean the "neck is moving into the route". It simply means it's flexing slightly at the weak point caused by the large pickup route there.

I've really been struggling to find the right terminology for this problem. Apologies if the slightly hyperbolic "neck moving into the rout" or "neck collapsing inot the rout" language is alarming. As the neck flexes, there is movement of the fretboard into/towards the rout, but such movement is very small. Previously this phenomenon has been alluded to as a "neck joint" issue, but given the neck-through nature of a 4003, I find that language a bit confusing. "Flexing" is an excellent description of what happens in this situation.

[chromium]

Also check to see whether the relief involves the neck collapsing into the neck pick-up rout. This can happen without wing separation and can be fixed, but is a great argument for ratcheting down the price.......

Just curious - would evidence of this be outwardly visible, or would I have to remove the pickguard?

From what I was able to observe, it seemed to me like most of the problem was in the neck relief as opposed to the neck+body geometry. Fretting it at the 20th still left a huge gap between the strings and fretboard mid-neck.

Once relief has been dialled out of the neck via truss rod adjustment, you can check on neck/body geometry using a straight edge. If the top of the fret board is parallel to a straight edge resting on the pickguard, then there's no issue. If, however, the fretboard is angled up relative to the straight edge (i.e there is an incline from body to peghead) then the neck has begun to move into the pickup rout. From the sound of it, this bass needs quite a bit of neck adjustment before the neck geometry issue can be meaningfully investigated.

Makes sense- thanks for that!

I can't help but assume that with this bass changing hands at least a few times that someone would have worked the huge bow out of the neck by now - if it were possible... I found a thread yesterday via another forum that has a couple of s8 owners describing truss rod swaps that were necessary to resolve similar neck issues in their basses. This red s8 I played fits their descriptions to a tee.

As much as I'd like to give it a chance and get it back into shape, I just can't get down with paying top dollar and still have to do all of that work. The search continues...

[aceonbass]

That's why you don't pay top dollar. You offer 'em $1800-$2000, and say take it or leave it. They're a pawn shop. Believe me, they'll take it. Most players don't know how to adjust the neck of their bass. Heck, I didn't even start doing my own set-ups till I was almost 40. With two truss rods, a Rick neck is twice as adjustable, and twice as strong. You can probably get this bass cheap and get it back in shape with a minimum of $$$ spent, but if you find one that's perfect, you WILL pay top dollar. Of course you could always buy a 4003 and I could convert it for you. I've done a few of these. Just ask around

[aceonbass]

This is my solution to the neck flexing issue on 4008's & 4003S8's......

[weemac]

This is my solution to the neck flexing issue on 4008's & 4003S8's......

Been there, Done that! (works a charm)

I have not done it to my 4008 as once I removed the Daddario train track tension strings and set it up with some light gauge SIT strings it became stable and rock solid (and it intones quite well too)

Eden.

[Colonel Sanders]

This is my solution to the neck flexing issue on 4008's & 4003S8's......

That is how the routing should be done in all 4003! I do not know why RIC are routing a cavity this big right up to the neck. The gluing area between the neck and the lower wing is very small close to the neck fingerboard interface. Even more when they reverted to the smaller body wing.