Were Toaster Neck Pickups on 60s Basses Long or Short Pole?

[knavel]

I've just bought a 4003S and I want to put a toaster pickup in the neck position. I have learned from reading that back then the guitar 6 pole piece toaster were used even on the basses. I have one of each type of vintage toaster in my parts box.

Also reading through previous discussions on this forum, I did not find a definitive answer to my question but I did perceive an assumption in some posts that toasters in the 60s basses were short pole piece versions.

However, there are sellers e.g., on Reverb.com who assert that the 60s basses used long pole piece toasters.

What is the correct answer?

Did the company change which sort of pickup it used over time, e.g, switched to one of the other in the 1970s (pre HiGain)?

Or maybe Rickenbacker used both styles?

[jps]

My '67 4005WB had a short magnet toaster in the neck position and a long magnet one at the bridge. However, that was a hollowbody/set-neck bass. IIRC, most 4001s had long magnet toasters at the neck.

[teeder]

I'm not 100% sure of this, but my understanding is the poles were long earlier in the '60's and then short later on.
My '69 4001 and 3 different '71's all had a short pole toaster.

[ikay]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference in sound between a short and long pole toaster? Do the longer poles provide a stronger magnetic field and more output?

[knavel]

My own previous look at the long / short pole pickup use led to the conclusion that the long poles stopped being used in the neck position on guitars circa May-Aug 1966. I suppose if that is the way it was, then it stands to reason that the basses had long pole in the neck slot prior to ~mid 1966 and short pole piece toasters thereafter.

In the end it may be a moot question if only the short pole piece pickup fits where the 4003S's Hi Gain sits in the neck!

@ikay, Sorry I don't know anything factual about any sound difference between the two sorts of pickups.

[iiipopes]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference in sound between a short and long pole toaster? Do the longer poles provide a stronger magnetic field and more output?

All else being equal, a longer magnet may have a stronger magnetic field. This equates to a little more pronounced articulation on a given bobbin with a given amount of windings. By contrast, a shorter magnet may have a slightly weaker magnetic field, which equates to a little less articulation. That is the primary reason short magnet pickups are used in the neck position: to get a slightly more mellow sound; and long magnet pickups in the bridge position: to get a slightly more articulate sound.

It is similar to all the discussion with other maker's pickups having Alnico II (softer or rounder tone) or Alnico V magnets (brighter or more articulate), whether slugs or bars, and the difference the magnet makes, given the same bobbin and windings.

In RIC lore, the short pole magnet pickups are desirable because they are rarer.

[ikay]

Thanks for the short/long pole explanation Scott.

[knavel]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference in sound between a short and long pole toaster? Do the longer poles provide a stronger magnetic field and more output?

In RIC lore, the short pole magnet pickups are desirable because they are rarer.

Thanks Scott. I will try to get the long poles into the neck slot unless they don't fit and I'll try the short poles.

[iiipopes]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference in sound between a short and long pole toaster? Do the longer poles provide a stronger magnetic field and more output?

In RIC lore, the short pole magnet pickups are desirable because they are rarer.

Thanks Scott. I will try to get the long poles into the neck slot unless they don't fit and I'll try the short poles.

Yes, on some guitars, there is no routing for the neck pickup. The short-pole neck toaster is simply mounted on top and a small hole is drilled into the top to run the lead to the controls.

[henry5]

My own previous look at the long / short pole pickup use led to the conclusion that the long poles stopped being used in the neck position on guitars circa May-Aug 1966. I suppose if that is the way it was, then it stands to reason that the basses had long pole in the neck slot prior to ~mid 1966 and short pole piece toasters thereafter.

In the end it may be a moot question if only the short pole piece pickup fits where the 4003S's Hi Gain sits in the neck!

@ikay, Sorry I don't know anything factual about any sound difference between the two sorts of pickups.

My ‘72 4001 basses are both long pole.

[knavel]

As an epilogue, I wanted to go with my long pole piece toaster (from a 67), but the leads on it are not long enough to run from the neck, so it had to be the short pole piece one as only it had the long enough leads.

I have recorded a factory stock demo that I hope to A/B to the bass with the old toaster and the Lollar horseshoe. But that horseshoe is giving me a lot of issues with the strings hitting the bobbin when it's installed. So it might be a while.

[jps]

...the Lollar horseshoe. But that horseshoe is giving me a lot of issues with the strings hitting the bobbin when it's installed.

How tall is the bobbin on it, and, what's the clearance from the top of the poles (screw tops) to the underside of the shoes?

[knavel]

...the Lollar horseshoe. But that horseshoe is giving me a lot of issues with the strings hitting the bobbin when it's installed.

How tall is the bobbin on it, and, what's the clearance from the top of the poles (screw tops) to the underside of the shoes?

The strings touch the screws and to adjust them requires the risky proposition of taking the pickup apart. Lollar shipped it with the two middle screws high, on the basis that it is the best set up for his own reference 4001.

The height adjusters are at the point that if I lower the pickup any further the knobs will fall off.

[bassduke49]

The knobs look like replacements and perhaps they are not long enough? The original setup are long Phillips-head machine screws the thread into the baseplate of the pickup. That's not what you have in the photo. Looks like a knurled nut with a screw/bolt coming up to meet it.

[gregson62]

I took my Lollar apart and adjusted it, no problem--twice. Just be REAL careful with the wiring and try to not let the magnets hit each other at all. I used a metal string radius gauge across the tops of the pole screws to make the initial adjustment, after setting up the saddles, string height and roughing in the intonation. I decided the D string was a little hot, so ended up lowering that pole screw a little more. The other thing I did before the final tightening down of the magnets against the aluminum baseplate was to slide a couple of very narrow/thin strips of aluminum under the ends of the horseshoes to cause them to spread the gap between the magnets a little more and give the strings just a bit more area to vibrate. It also caused the radius across the underside of the horseshoes to more closely match the radius across the top of the pole screws. Sure--if I hit the strings hard enough I can get them to hit the underside of the horseshoes, but slap/pop playing is not the use case for this bass.

I have to second what Paul mentioned in his comment: Get rid of those pickup height adjusters! Yuck. The machine screws that come with the Lollar are also a little unsightly. I replaced with the regular Rickenbacker screws and it looks great.