Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

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geddeeee
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Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

Hi All,

I have a 2011 Jetglo 4003 that had a a cross threaded nut on the G side truss rod, so the rod couldn't be adjusted. I bought a new set of rods to replace the damaged one.
I took it to a 'repair guy' who proceeded to get the rod stuck inside the channel. There is about 6 inches of rod sticking out from the headstock end and will not budge at all. I was under the impression that the rod needed to be removed from the body end.

As a result I now have a f***ed up bass. I am annoyed!!!! I live in England and it seems that no one wants to touch it, or quoting astronomical prices to remove the fingerboard etc.

Any tips on how I can possibly correct this? This is my only bass and with gigs on the horizon, I may not be able to play them.

Thanks!!!
Last edited by geddeeee on Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jdogric12
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by jdogric12 »

Wait until better experts chime in, but I think all you need to do (and you can do this yourself) is clamp down the fretboard over the 1st fret, with something soft in between the vice and the wood to protect the finish, and tug that rod real hard, pulling straight out best you can given the angle (as opposed to lifting up and popping the fretboard off).
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geddeeee
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

Thanks Jason.

I did think of doing this, but have no real tools to try it. Plus from the look of it, the rod is wrapped with heat wrap tubing which is now bunched up inside the neck.
I really feel like crying.
I let my feelings be known to the guy who tried to 'repair' it. As compensation he told me he wouldn't charge me for his time!!! I nearly slapped the bloke...

I'm not really 'mechanically minded' and a bit ham fisted when it comes to this sort of thing. I WOULD break something.
I can do a set up on my basses OK, but his has left me feeling quite depressed. I cannot afford hundreds of pounds to get it corrected...
maxwell
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by maxwell »

Hopefully "rickenbrother" will come along with some good advice. I have old links to some of his old "Joey's Bass Notes" videos.... can't link to the addresses I've saved....

Well, here's a short video to demonstrate how that rod removal should go:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8903114@N07/5569164144/

You know, the first possibility I thought of was that the tech neglected to remove the washer and nut at the other end of the rod. Whether there is something loose that's binding the rod, or if the nut is still attached, I'd tap the rod all the way back in. You'll be able to observe the opposite rod end, and if there's something loose floating around underneath the finger board, it may become dislodged enough to then remove the rod completely. Put the nut on at the very end of the exposed part of the rod before you start tapping on it, so your hammer doesn't damage the rod's threads, or use a mallet made of softer material (e.g., wood).

Look on YouTube for some videos, watch a bunch of them.

I've struggled mightily with these, and it takes time. You'll eventually figure it out and have success. Only work on the bass when you have plenty of time and with the proper tools. When you become tired or frustrated, quit working on it; return another day.
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geddeeee
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

Hi Maxwell

Thanks for the advice.
I understand the mechanics of how it should be done, but the vid is for a 4001. The newer 4003's need to be removed from the body end as the truss rod channel hole at the headstock is tinier than the heat wrap tubing.
It also looks like the cross threaded nut at the headstock end has been snapped off so the rod is an inch shorter than it should be. Plus the rod looks a bit mangled and bent. Calling himself a 'tech' is a stretch. I could have strangled him!!!!

I think knocking the rod back into the body is the way to go so the tube wrap is not left inside the neck. Then the problem is trying to grab the body end of the rod and pulling it through.

I will not attempt this myself as I said I WILL break something. The more time goes on, the more I think that I may just sell the bass as is for a hugely reduced price and buy a Fender Precision or similar. I have gigs coming up soon and need the money. My band are relying on my bass work.

Truly heartbroken!!!! :x
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Dirk
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by Dirk »

Sorry to hear, that's a tough situation and everyone's losing so far.
I'll bet your tech friend is not happy about it either.

I'd say first off you need to find a Rick specific tech, but a good luthier should be able to solve it.

A couple things to think about, has humidity changed for this bass recently?
I ask because wood expands and contracts with temperature and humidity.
It could be a matter of getting the wood to let go of the rod a bit.

I don't know about newer rods, someone will no doubt have more specific advice.

I've had to use a steel punch to pound out stuck rods, but you always risk popping the fingerboard off.
That may indeed be the solution if it's truly stuck. It's not end of the world again for a good luthier.

I've made my fair share of instrumental mistakes, but always learned from it somehow.
Good luck,
Dirk
maxwell
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by maxwell »

OK, I understand you will not work on your bass, however, just in case...

If you don't already have something to tap the rod through to expose a rod end (from either end of the bass), I used a long Allen wrench, selecting a diameter that would just fit into the hole. (I suspect these wrenches are called something else in the UK -- ,"L"-shaped hex wrenches. Insert the long end, tap on the short end.) From the headstock end (and maybe, also, the body end) you can drive/tap the rod end by placing your adjustment nut driver over the rod end and tap on the end of the driver handle until the rod end is almost in the hole, then switching to the Allen wrench.

I had a really hard time just removing my little 325-sized rods. I had to grab (at the neck end) the rod with pliers; "vice grips" would have been easier. My mistake was (on the first rod) that I grabbed the thread of the rod and messed those up. Screwing the nut all the way down provides a good purchase point as well as precludes grabbing directly on the threads (although I know that your rod is already beat up).

These rods usually have a significant curve to them. If you remove the rod from the body side, check to see how the rod is curved as it starts to emerge (you can probably tell by just looking inside the hole); curved up is safest and much easier -- less tension of the length of the rod against the channel in the neck. You need to protect the body from becoming scratched. A piece of cloth on the body, then something like a piece of sheet metal or something thin that won't allow the rod end to possibly penetrate through to the body. (Something too thick/high will get in the way of the rod as it emerges.)

It is possible (but not likely) that your tech has rotated the rod within the neck, so that the general curve of the rod might be other than "up." I haven't tried this (I theorized about this on the RIC site a decade ago) , but I did consider rotating the rod by screwing on the nut (at the headstock) all the way down so that it can no longer rotate. Then use a wrench to continue as if you were still screwing down the nut. But now, since the nut no longer turns alone, the entire rod will turn....

Well, I thought I'd write this as I had nothing else to do, in spite of your decision. Maybe you'll change your mind. Maybe someone else here will come along to offer further advice.

I understand the decision to sell "as is" at a loss. I have a guitar (Fender neck, Floyd Rose system) with a "superficial" crack at the neck. I can barely flex it, and I can't widen the crack enough to drop in some thin super glue; I'd have to actually break the neck further. The crack doesn't seem to affect tuning, but try to convince a buyer that he won't have problems down the road. You're stuck selling at a big loss.

Anyway, good luck with this. If you change your mind about fixing it yourself, let us know how it goes.
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jps
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by jps »

geddeeee wrote:I could have strangled him!!!!
There's still time...
geddeeee wrote:The more time goes on, the more I think that I may just sell the bass as is for a hugely reduced price and buy a Fender Precision or similar.
Ever tried replacing the truss rod in a 7ender? :wink:
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geddeeee
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

Yeah Jeffrey, I will make sure others know NOT to visit this particular 'tech'.

Don't really want to return to a Fender, but I need to make some money and PLAY!!!
At the moment the 4003 has broken my heart with the ****** rod design. ( I had similar issues with another 4003. Masking tape is a lot softer than shrink tubing, so was easier to resolve).

Maybe in a few days when I have calmed down, I may change my mind, but I doubt it....

Second 4003 and same issues and an even worse paint job. Come on RIC, I paid £2000 for it...
maxwell
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by maxwell »

(I'm too late to edit my last post...) Since the adjustment rod is already "out" by a few inches, I suppose I would go to a hardware store and buy a rod to use as a tool, say, about 20 inches in length and use this to tap out the rod from the neck end (since that's the direction you need to do this in order to remove the rod). To keep the sharp, square end of the rod/tool from catching/gauging/scraping, use a file or Dremel rotary-type tool to round off the "corners" of the rod/tool end. Most of the end will have to remain flat in order to contact the adjustment rod end squarely. I imagine the purchased rod/tool might not be too flexible, so inserting it (tapping it) into the neck may only safely work about half way down. Perhaps an aluminum rod/tool might be available. But if you can get the adjustment rod down half way, it should then pull out fairly easy.

A 20-in. rod/tool might be too long to begin with. Get a long rod and cut it up into ever-longer workable sections, say 8-10", 12-15", and 18-20" sections, or something like that.

Just some afterthoughts in case you pursue this.... I was just sitting around imagining how I might do this. That's all I have. :lol:
Benjamin
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by Benjamin »

Hacksaw that nut off. As others have suggested, get some similar rod, or even a screwdriver of similar diameter and carefully push back the other way.
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henry5
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by henry5 »

Well I’d do it myself, but if you don’t want to, take it to a pro. I’d suggest someone like Martin Petersen at the Bass Gallery in Camden. One thing I’ve learned the hard way over the years; always make sure that any “tech” has a solid reputation. This is much easier in this day and age due to the Internet. We didn’t have that back in the day!

If you do want to do it yourself, Buy an Irwin quick grip clamp from Screwfix (Under a tenner) to clamp the fingerboard, you’ll potentially need something to poke the rod out one way (a long, thin screwdriver or even one of the replacement rods will do) and a pair of pliers in case you need to pull it from the other end.

One thing though; my understanding is it was only the very early 4003s where the rods were removed from the body end. What year is your bass?

EDIT - 2011 - They come out of the headstock end, unless there’s been another change I don’t know about. So far as I’m aware all 4001/4003 rods come out the headstock end except for the very early 4003s. When pulling out the rods from the headstock end I also put a small palette knife under the rod as it’s being pulled out so it doesn’t damage the headstock, but anything will do really.

Also, it may be worth doing as I did and buying a couple more Irwin clamps to clamp it to a table while you remove the rods. It stops it moving about. Make sure you put something between the jaws and the bass so you don’t damage the finish.

Otherwise, take it to the Bass Gallery. It’s worth it just to look at all the basses, and Martin is a great guy.
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geddeeee
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

It's a 2011 4003 and it definitely does not come out of the headstock end. That's where the problem lies.

The hole for the truss rod is barely wide enough for the end of the rod. The shrink tubing will not fit through the gap at the headstock hence the issues with the rod removal.

I appreciate all the suggestions (some more than others). I have been playing for 41 years now, so have more than an idea how Rick basses work, truss rods, setup etc.
The rod is jammed in there!!!! Someone elses incompetence has led to this. Namely the 'tech' I took it to and also RIC for crossthreading the G side truss rod nut.

This bass unfortunately will probably be sold. I have contacted luthiers from all over the country and the prices they are quoting are ridiculous.
I love this bass, but I cannot justify spending hundreds of pounds to fix it.

For the prices quoted, I could buy a whole new bass (non RIC). After 2 weeks with no bass guitar and a realisation that this may turn into a money pit, I have resigned myself to the fact that I have to wave goodbye to her.
As I am a gigging musician, I have to try and make money after this year of madness. Spending £2000 on a bass guitar and then having to spend more to fix a simple problem is just not on. Plus the paint falling off in chunks by the bridge and top of the neck... Ugh. The single worst paint job I have seen on ANY guitar by any maker.

I had the same issues with a 2004 4003. Again truss rod problems. I had to sell that one too. Even with the truss rod replaced on that one (3 weeks to get the truss rod out...), it was never the same.

RIC have had nearly £5000 of my money, they ain't get any more....
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henry5
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by henry5 »

Well the reversal of the rod removal back to the early days of 4003 is news to me, and I’ve been on here for many years, although admittedly the last 4003 I had was an S8 (I generally prefer the older basses). Do you have pics of the headstock end? Not doubting you, just interested to see.

To be honest, it wasn’t clear from your posts how much experience you had, so ALL advice was well-intentioned and should be taken as such. Even people who do obviously have experience setting up instruments don’t always have experience with Rics, as your “tech” proves. And any luthier who is looking at charging you hundreds without even seeing the bass and properly assessing it should be ignored.

FWIW the only new Fender I ever bought needed the neck replacing right off the bat. Unfortunately sometimes you just get a dud, which there’s no real way round.
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geddeeee
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Re: Rickenbacker 4003 truss rod stuck... HELP!!!

Post by geddeeee »

A quick update on my sick Ricky.

After taking it to 3 other 'luthiers', all of who could not remove the rod, I was recommended a local luthier who has it at the moment.
He will have to remove the fretboard to get the rod out. I had a long conversation with him last night and he seems to be know what he is talking about. He is not a RIC spcialist by any means, but he does seem to know what problems could occur.
He even went and bought some new tools to make sure he was going to do a good job. The bass is on the operating table today, so just waiting to hear how the surgery went.
The guy seems to know what he is talking about and is up front and honest about what needs to be done. He says it won't be cheap, but he is willing to let me pay for it in installments, so that is a relief.

My band has had a couple of practices in preparation for upcoming gigs. Without the Ricky it does not sound the same. The other members are on board with getting the 4003 up and running. They are even willing to chip in for the repair. What a bunch of guys!!!!
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