4003 Strap pin to neck heel

[lumgimfong]

Anyone done this? What was the result?

I’d like to get the bass to tip forward a bit and away from my body, while at the same time having the bass hang more to my right hip, moving the headstock closer to my body since with the standard pin placement the headstock makes it difficult to look at my left hand while I’m playing below the fifth fret. Have to twist my head around pretty far to see. Sorta like looking over the shoulder, so to speak. So getting the headstock more out in front of me would help.
I have another bass (not a Ric) with the strap pin in the neck heel and that bass tips forward a bit and the neck is in a more forward position nicely so I was just wondering if this is something that works on a 4003 or not. I would also be interested in knowing if moving the pin to the neck heel caused the bass to be more neck heavy or not. Thanks for the info.

[espidog]

I've not tried this on my 4003 (no desire to), but given that the end of the top horn is a good 5 inches (125mm) further away from the body than the neck heel, I'd say it's inevitable that you're going to have to contend with neck dive (unless you do the "Strap through the trouser belt" trick, of course ). Some players even complain that the 4003 is neck-heavy anyway. I'm not one of them - it's always sat at a good angle for me.

ADDED LATER: Actually, you can kinda test the idea without drilling any holes in your bass:

Get a length of strong cord/string and loop it through the hole in the end of your strap. Then tie the rest of it tightly around the neck of your 4003 at the heel, around the 19th fret. Make sure that the knot is good and strong (use a double reef knot, not a granny! - I'm not being held responsible for your bass falling off you! ) - then stand up and see how the instrument hangs on your body. Should give you a pretty good idea of how it would work.

If you're going to try this, I recommend you stand next to a bed, with your legs right up against the mattress edge, so that if the string breaks or a knot comes adrift, the bass will fall onto the mattress.

[lumgimfong]

Haha! I already tried it with tape but the tape didn't hold but I was prepared for that eventuality and caught the bass in my hand.

Using string sounds better! Thanks for the tip.

Maybe put button on the back of the horn? That way keep the balance but still tips forward?

Tone is amazing and playability is great. If I could just optimize the balance and hanging position would be perfecto. With earlier changes I eliminated most of the neck heaviness. Had this bass for 5 years now and it's the one thing that bugs me still is the headstock seems so far away and out to the rear.

[lumgimfong]

UPDATE:
I found a suction cup shower hook to use. Works great can put anywhere on bass and try.

I tried it:
1. Back of the horn - no change.
2. Neck heel - definitely enables me the forward tilt and placement of the neck so I can see my left hand better. Helps put the headstock more out in front. Bass at more 45 degree angle from the body. But then I am looking at the back of the instrument the whole time I play. That's ok, but it is a drastic position change. Definitely playable though. Another downside is neck dive, but just touching my forearm to the bass body is enough to offset it and bring it into position nicely.
3. Using the suction cup up 3" inches higher on the body (simulating movement of the rear pin higher than the tailpiece, while using the horn pin on the other end like normal). Tilts bass head up higher a good bit. Doesn't bring neck out in front of body anymore.

Hmmmmmm.....I'll have to try playing with the neck heel option for a couple days and see if that is the move I want to make before drilling for any new pin placements.

[espidog]

Love the shower hook - great creative thinking!

[doctorwho]

Love the shower hook - great creative thinking!

+1, good way to experiment without making regretful changes!

FWIW, the 4001FL I had (now KH's) had been modified, apparently for a left-handed player, and a strap pin had been attached to the body at the neck:

I am not recommending this, just showing what somebody else had done.

[lumgimfong]

Thanks!
Interesting location.
I will have to see if the suction cup will work there. I was doing my test placement in the middle of the heel like a Gibson SG or a Casady bass.

[doctorwho]

T... I was doing my test placement in the middle of the heel like a Gibson SG or a Casady bass.

That would be the logical location.

[Dirk]

Well that's the old Alembic solution to neck dive.

You might try changing the position of the other end pin too.

Great idea on the suction cup, kudos to you for that solution.

[lumgimfong]

UPDATE:

I tried the suction cup at the neck heel again and I find that like it a lot.

It tilts the body slightly forward and brings the headstock around more in front of me, instead of it pulling behind me like the pin at the horn. So it is easier to see left hand while playing without twisting my head around so much. I can still see the front of the fingerboard and bass in this position and I am not looking at the back of the bass, like in yesterday's trial. I put the suction cup right at the and of the neck heel this time.

The headstock sits higher this way, at about face level (which I like), bringing the headstock and neck closer to me.

Though this pin placement allows slightly more neck drop, it feels like the neck heel strap button placement is a pivot around which the bass rotates and the weight of my hand/arm on the body when I play offsets the neck heaviness totally without adding pressure to my shoulder the strap is on, so the comfort stays the same. I am not resting the arm on the bass body. Just the touch of the hand/arm on the bass while playing is enough. It doesn't feel like I am pressing or pushing to hold the neck up. Feels more like a pivoting of the body around the strap pin point. Pretty effortless.

So I think I will put a strap button behind the neck heel since the bass sits better that way on me. Hopefully it will work in reality just as well as the suction cup. I will just be sure to shorten the mounting screw so I stay well back from the truss rod channels.

Just for height reference: I play all my basses hanging at a height so that the neck pickup is basically at the same height as my pants button.

[lumgimfong]

I put the strap button in the center of the neck heel, but as close to the heel/neck edge as I could get.
Works great!! Just like the suction cup!!
Oddly, there is less neck heaviness than the button at the horn.
So it seems a viable option if anyone has wondered.

The Dunlop Dual Design Straplok screw was short enough without having to cut it shorter.

[henry5]

Lemmy’s Rics typically had the strap button moved to the heel. Must admit I always thought it would make them neck dive horribly.

[lumgimfong]

I have had a Guild Starfire, and an SG bass that had the buttons on the heel that both dove straight to the floor with no hands.
Getting Hipshot Ultralite tuners helped with the Starfire. Never tried on the SG as I sold it.

I have Ultralite tuners on the 4003, too. It seemed to be more neck divey with the suction cup trial but with the strap button actually installed, it doesn't dive. It stays in place no hands. Less neck heavy than using the horn button, which would still sink down a little with no hands.
But I have done other things to this bass to reduce neck heaviness like adding heavier control knobs and using stickier straps, ultralight tuners, using taller strap buttons, like the Dual Design. So I guess every little bit adds up. Next I would like to put the heavier brass Hipshot bridge on the 4003. Praise the Lord the bass is so comfortable now.

[doctorwho]

Glad you got things to work!

If you get a chance, could you please post a picture in this thread of the new pin and surrounding area for future reference (in case others would want that information).

[lumgimfong]

Sure thing! I was thinking of doing that.
BTW, was the 4001FL you posted pics of neck heavy? Do you know the reason they moved the strap pin?