Singing if you're not a singer
- cassius987
- Senior Member
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Singing if you're not a singer
I've sang back-up in many bands, and I have a decent range according to many. My falsetto is a strong point. But there are times when I am pushed to the limit and simply don't know what what to do, and to be honest, I don't consider myself a bona fide singer. Case in point, at the studio I was asked to sing some backups recently and happily obliged. For whatever reason that day my voice had peaked and wasn't willing to go to the high end of my full voice so I just kept cracking in mid-note (it's a challenging part even according to our gifted lead singer who wasn't willing to try it). Now, I got the job done in a few too many takes and with the help of Melodyne, but I left that session quite depressed. When I have a problem on bass I usually know a way of tackling it. Not now. Is there anything I can do to solidify my voice for these challenging parts or is there nothing I can do? I enjoy singing and want to keep doing it, even if it's hard, but I don't want to screw up at a show on one of these challenging bits either.
The lead singer took this shot of me at that session--maybe there's something about my posture I should think about...?
The lead singer took this shot of me at that session--maybe there's something about my posture I should think about...?
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Hi Joshua, I have a bunch of observations and tidbits of info that I've picked up over the years. They might be right or wrong; I don't know for sure. I am in a similar boat in being a decent backup singer, but I'm a frustrated, wannabe lead vocalist. My background harmonies are usually better than my leads. I have worked with a number of very talented vocalists over the years and here's what I have noticed:
I believe that the voice 'wakes up' at different times for different people. Mine sounds best after 7:00 PM. I think that's one of the reasons that groups book late studio times. I used to dread having to do any tapings during 'normal' people's working hours. It helps me to start singing a bit in the afternoon (but, nothing challenging). If I do that, I get better results at night. The good singers I have talked to have said or done the following:
-- don't sing anything tough until your voice has warmed up.
-- nothing to drink except for water or warm tea before a gig (sugary or cold beverages are not supposed to be good for your throat). Alcohol, candy, and 'heavy' food are also supposedly bad.
-- no smoking (especially pot/hash).
-- do major scale warmups. Twice thru the scale on one root note, then start the next one on the 2nd interval note. Keep raising the root note of the scale until you can't sing the last note. Then, reverse the process, cycling the scales lower and lower until you can't sing the lowest note. The scale is: I, II, III, IV, V, V, V, V, V, IV, III, II, I. Vary the syllable you sing; do a bunch with 'mah', then 'me', 'my', 'mo', 'moo'. Change the consonant (B, D, F, K, L, M, P, S, T, V) occasionally. Doing this is very boring and tedious. The people around you will not be happy. But, this warmup really works well.
-- pay attention to air conditioners and forced air heaters (and Santa Ana/Las Vegas dry winds). They all negatively impact your voice. Steam can help humidfy your throat.
-- one (wacko) male vocalist I worked with claimed to sleep with a 5 to 8 pound weight on his chest. I guess he thought it would strengthen his diaphram. YMMV
FWIW, I routinely ignore all of the above guidelines. Good luck. Tom
I believe that the voice 'wakes up' at different times for different people. Mine sounds best after 7:00 PM. I think that's one of the reasons that groups book late studio times. I used to dread having to do any tapings during 'normal' people's working hours. It helps me to start singing a bit in the afternoon (but, nothing challenging). If I do that, I get better results at night. The good singers I have talked to have said or done the following:
-- don't sing anything tough until your voice has warmed up.
-- nothing to drink except for water or warm tea before a gig (sugary or cold beverages are not supposed to be good for your throat). Alcohol, candy, and 'heavy' food are also supposedly bad.
-- no smoking (especially pot/hash).
-- do major scale warmups. Twice thru the scale on one root note, then start the next one on the 2nd interval note. Keep raising the root note of the scale until you can't sing the last note. Then, reverse the process, cycling the scales lower and lower until you can't sing the lowest note. The scale is: I, II, III, IV, V, V, V, V, V, IV, III, II, I. Vary the syllable you sing; do a bunch with 'mah', then 'me', 'my', 'mo', 'moo'. Change the consonant (B, D, F, K, L, M, P, S, T, V) occasionally. Doing this is very boring and tedious. The people around you will not be happy. But, this warmup really works well.
-- pay attention to air conditioners and forced air heaters (and Santa Ana/Las Vegas dry winds). They all negatively impact your voice. Steam can help humidfy your throat.
-- one (wacko) male vocalist I worked with claimed to sleep with a 5 to 8 pound weight on his chest. I guess he thought it would strengthen his diaphram. YMMV
FWIW, I routinely ignore all of the above guidelines. Good luck. Tom
It's a Byrd, it's a playin'..........
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- paologregorio
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Singing from the diaphragm is key. You still want to warm your throat up though since the air goes that way up from the diaphragm, AFAIK.
I never really sang any lead until we started having regular Rick jams, but I've always done a lot of backing vox, with the occasional one song lead vox.
I never really sang any lead until we started having regular Rick jams, but I've always done a lot of backing vox, with the occasional one song lead vox.
There is no reason to ever be bored.
...why yes, I suppose I do have a double bound guitar fetish...
"Uh, I like the double bounds. . . ."
...why yes, I suppose I do have a double bound guitar fetish...
"Uh, I like the double bounds. . . ."
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
after 30-plus years of NOT singing at all, i've recently tried to contribute some minor backing vocals,and even some parallel lead vocals in the 2 bands i work with. i have a very quiet speaking voice,and really do not have much punch to my singing. besides the fact that i am not a natural at singing,i have found trying to sing one part and play a bass line to be a real challenge. i am really enjoying it,though! Posture probably helps, i have a bad tendency to slouch either standing or sitting, and i find that when i straighten up,it seems a bit easier to belt something out. As for liquids,etc, i probably do everything wrong, I usually have a beer or wine pre practice,but i am not doing loud screaming lead vocals,just trying to offer a bit of reinforcement/harmony here and there. all i can say is,as with most things,practice and familiarity help the process. if you are enjoying it,keep working at it.
- cassius987
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- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:11 pm
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Thanks guys. Tom, I really appreciate your specific thoughts. I am just as much self-taught of a singer as I am a bassist if not moreso: I have been exposed to theory and given lots of opportunities my entire life but I was never thrust into the spotlight until I chose to do it myself, and never got personal training, so I have more advantages than some (especially theory and ear) but very little as far as technique. I have definitely found singing from the diaphragm helps and that's what got me through this tough session. The resulting backup part sounds absolutely wonderful to me and the band but I was shattered that Melodyne had to come into the picture to clean up a couple of notes. Of course it's hardly the first time I've seen someone use Melodyne on a vocalist.
I look forward to sharing the track some time regardless, it is THE best thing I have ever been a part of as far as engineering and producing go. As a bass player I am laying back a bit but it's been fun.
I look forward to sharing the track some time regardless, it is THE best thing I have ever been a part of as far as engineering and producing go. As a bass player I am laying back a bit but it's been fun.
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Tom pretty much nailed it all. I can't improve on what he said, exercises and all. And I am a trained vocalist. To recap one important point; it all does come from the diaphragm. When you breathe, try not to raise you shoulders, but feel like you're expanding you gut. You should feel this swelling sensation below the solar plexus. I hope this helps. Like everything else in music, it takes lots of time, and practice.
JimK
JimK
- Hotzenplotz
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
paologregorio wrote:Singing from the diaphragm is key. You still want to warm your throat up though since the air goes that way up from the diaphragm, AFAIK.
Maybe THIS is a ignored missing part for me. I have no problems with the voice itself, no tune problems I mean. It just was not a "freerunning" tone until yet. So I thought it is good enough for bathroom or car use, but not more. (And better nobody is around...)jimk wrote:To recap one important point; it all does come from the diaphragm. When you breathe, try not to raise you shoulders, but feel like you're expanding you gut. You should feel this swelling sensation below the solar plexus. I hope this helps. Like everything else in music, it takes lots of time, and practice.
JimK
Strange: The last days my wish grow to sing in the band, too. But there was some assistance missing, one special part. - Then I found this thread and read it completely.
Hmm, why not have a test about what is written here.
Then I had a try with a song. Great, got it! Whoa!
I never sung in a band but I want to do.
If, I want to do it right and I want to avoid some embarrassment. Coincidentally I have to do exercises after a intervertebral disk operation. Similar muscles are needed! Easy for me to concentrate on.
Now I just have to practice, to practice and to practice.
Thanks!!!
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
This guy has a lot to say. And I think it's worth while, too. He has put up others, as well.
JimK
JimK
- johnnysain
- Member
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Damn, that scared the hell out of my cat.
Rickenbacker player since 1978
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
I'm sorry, it's probably good advice, but it cracked me up listening to him...
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Oh yeah, no doubt about it. Vocal exercises do sound goofy, but they work in the long run.
JimK
JimK
- Hotzenplotz
- Intermediate Member
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
I tried while driving my car alone outside residential districts ...
Not bad! It is working so far and interesting.
Not bad! It is working so far and interesting.
- johnnysain
- Member
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Be careful, you may attract wolves.....Hotzenplotz wrote:I tried while driving my car alone outside residential districts ...
Rickenbacker player since 1978
- Hotzenplotz
- Intermediate Member
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Re: Singing if you're not a singer
Fine!
Need some decoration for my car aerial...
Need some decoration for my car aerial...
Re: Singing if you're not a singer
I have nothing useful to add. I really wish I could sing but I cannot. I was once told about my singing skills, that I sound like pigs fornicating