Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

Discuss the early days of the Club with the manager.
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13_temple_street
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Peter; This recording of Freddie singing Tutti Frutti is a typical example of performances by Freddie Starr every Tuesday at the Iron Door club 13, Temple Street,Liverpool 2. The original recording was made by Deutshe Vogue label in 1964. I understand that the twelve track album is now distributed for purchase as a Cd.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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FREDDIE STARR and the Star boys. Live at the Iron Door.
Peter Mc Cormack asked for the details of the performance . I was presented with a original tape from the recording at the Iron Door. I did not attend the London Pye Studios with Tony Hatch and Geoff Emerick. Visitors to the Iron Door forum probable associate Tony Hatch with the Searchers group!
Dear Larry; Thank you for the detailed reply to my approach, it was a long shot as to whether I received a reply from you, although I have researched possibly all the information on the internet regarding your very illustrious career.
My initial reason for contacting you was to try and get some answers to questions which have dogged me and a few others for some time; there has been quite a few heated discussions as to the musicians who formed the group the Star Boys who backed Freddie on the recording of Freddie Starr and the Star Boys. On the Tutti Frutti track Freddie is heard to say come on 'Reggie Boy' which immediately makes me think of REGGIE WELCH, the problem I have with that scenario I didn't think Reggie was around with Freddie at the time! one of the other questions was who introduced the band and the venue on the record. You have answered the other burning question whether in fact the recording was live at the club in Temple Street liverpool2
.
LARRIES REPLY.
Hello Geoff,
What a blast from the past I was representing Pye records in Germany who were co owners of Deutsche Vogue and met Les Ackerley on one of my frequent trips to London who was managing the Searchers at the time . He invited me to check out groups which appeared at the Iron Door Club who were not signed to any label after an audition one Sunday at the IDC Freddie Starr was among them and appeared on a album called live at the Iron Door Club which was actually partially re-recorded at PYE Studios in London with Tony Hatch and Geoff Emerick where Freddie Starr also recorded a German-language version of 'You Will Never Walk Alone'. After the demise of Deutsche Vogue in 1969 ande Pye a decade later their catalogue was bought by Ariola (BMG)
In 2000, a company called Bear Family released a book and 12 CDs of singles, about the history of English and American artists who recorded in German in the 60s/early 70s Freddie Starrs single was among them.
I don't know if we ever met up but it is a great pleasure to have heard from you . I really enjoyed those years. I left Pye/Vogue in 1966 to head up my own company in Germany and returned to UK in 1969 to head up A&M Records Europe and joined Warner Brothers as head of international A&R IN 1973. My final stint was managing the reformed Pirates in 1977 and retired to Lanzarote in 1979.
Best wishes
Larry Yaskiel.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Geoff; I’ve done a bit of poking ‘round and I strongly suspect the “Star Boys” group backing Freddie Starr on that Iron Door recording were The Excheckers, a four-piece outfit from Chester, who just backed him for that session. I’ve also learned that The Excheckers recorded on Deutsche Vogue as The Liverpool Beats and were temporally under the guidance of Les Ackerley for a time. Furthermore; I understand that there were two versions of The Liverpool Beats recording on Deutsche Vogue at the same time. While The Excheckers did their recordings in English there was a mirror group that recorded in German.
Excheckers zadni strana CD kopie.jpg

The Excheckers were previously known as Jeannie and the Big Guys - Jeannie being one Rita Hughes. By the time Jeannie left the Big Guys to go solo, accomplished keyboard player and vocalist Phil Blackman had joined and they became The Excheckers. As The Excheckers, I can recall watching them on a several occasions during 1964 / 65 when I and a couple of others would get suited-up and pile into my first ever car, a 12-year old Ford Popular 103E I’d bought for £65 from an uncle, and drive the 20 or so miles down the A41 from Birkenhead on a Saturday evening to Quaintways on Chester’s Bridge Street.
exchequerers.jpg
Further supporting evidence can be found within the pages of Bear Family Records at …
https://www.bear-family.com/lexikon/det ... 12/id/7982

The sometimes poorly translated from the German article mentions that The Excheckers (aka The Liverpool Beats) were at that time being temporally managed by Les Ackerley. Also, Larry Yaskiel is mentioned as a further source of reference. It’s therefore highly likely that as The Liverpool Beats, The Excheckers were also the group on the 1964 Deutsche Vogue recording of …
391275795715.jpg
For more info of this recording see …
https://www.discogs.com/The-Liverpool-B ... se/8710575

From that Freddie Starr and the Star Boys Iron Door live set I’ve found a further two tracks up on You Tube. Sounds to me that it's just a four-piece group featuring keyboards, guitar, bass and drums - as was The Excheckers line-up - backing Freddie Starr ...


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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Peter; The Excheckers were always going to be in the hat because of their association with Freddie. Some of the information you have discovered is new to me and very interesting. I have certainly had conversations with two members of the group who call themselves the pacemakers. You may have wondered why my knowledge of the gathering of the groups at the Iron Door on that Sunday to make a recording of Liverpool groups who had not signed to a label, I was not in attendance I had been THROWN my P.45 some weeks before (which is another story). I found myself in rather strange surroundings I opened another club HERE


This is not New York it is the famous Lime Street in Liverpool as it looked in 1964.The premises I acquired are immediately behind the Guinness clock at the top of the building. The clock is the large white circle on one of the buildings it is a trick of light on the photograph in actual fact the clock was fluorescent red. The premises were vast and in a past life had been a ballroom. I named the club THE STAIRKASE CLUB.
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Photo from the interesting site at http://www.limestreetfuture.co.uk
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Geoff; it’s a matter of public record (i.e. London Gazette notices) that you and Harry Ormesher were having business problems about this time. I'm guessing that Harry Ormesher had moved on and - with his cameras - was making himself busy elsewhere leaving you to soldier on down Temple Street under new management arrangements. That is before you, as you put it, were “THROWN” your *P45. Here I’m assuming your use, in higher case type, of the verb action thrown (as opposed to being handed) your P45 is meant to imply that it was as a rather acrimonious parting. I therefore well understand your unwillingness to revisit the matter. At our time of life it serves no purpose raking over such personal 50-year ashes - especially in public via the medium of an internet forum such as this.

For those not familiar with the term *P45, a P45 is an officially recognised certificate given to an employee in the UK at the end of a period of employment, providing details of their tax code, gross pay, and the tax paid for that year, to be passed to a subsequent employer or benefit agency. So, to be handed (or in Geoff’s case “THROWN”) one’s P45 in effect means one’s services are no longer required.
The premises I acquired are immediately behind the Guinness clock at the top of the building. The clock is the large white circle on one of the buildings it is a trick of light on the photograph in actual fact the clock was fluorescent red. The premises were vast and in a past life had been a ballroom. I named the club THE STAIRKASE CLUB.
I can well imagine why you called it The Stairkase Club. For if as you say the premises were immediately behind the landmark Guinness Clock then that would have put it six floors above street level according to this old photo of the façade …
GuinnessClocklowres.jpg
Look closely and one can make out what I presume is the external fire escape, the top of which is just visible above the rooftop of the next-door Washington Hotel. No matter how big the internal layout was that’s some flights of stairs to climb and descend in order to be entertained. I’m of course assuming there was no lift / no elevator for patrons to use being that such mechanical devices were few and far between in Liverpool around that time.

Re: The Pacemakers
It’s my understanding that The Excheckers first saw the light of day around Chester as The Pacemakers but got coerced by Brian Epstein to change their name when he signed Gerry and the Pacemakers. With the arrival of then 17-year old Rita Hughes they became Four Hits and a Miss that was subsequently changed to Jeannie and the Big Guys when they recorded a couple of non-charting singles on the Piccadilly label (a subsidiary of Pye Records). Following the arrival of keyboard player Phil Blackman and lead guitar Pete Johnson, Rita Hughes left to go solo and cut a further couple of singles that likewise went nowhere on the Colombia label under the name of Cindy Cole.

As The Excheckers, only drummer George Roberts remained from The Pacemakers original line up. During 1964 the group were to cut a solitary single on the Decca label for UK release, both sides credited as being written by the group’s four members, Roberts, Johnson, Blackman and Pickett, with Phil Blackman doing the vocals …




The more I listen the more I’m convinced that it’s also Phil Blackman playing keyboads on the Freddie Starr and the Star Boys recording - but, that just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Just read your excellent post Peter; 1:07 AM bit late for me to reply to some very interesting comments you made. I'll be back shortly.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

GONE Gone

The magic and atmosphere that existed in the Liverpool Beat- Boom years appeared to disappear overnight. Most of the established groups had left the Liverpool scene for pastures new.
I was aware that the Lime Street premises were to be demolished which suited me I was prepared for one more throw of the dice.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Geoff; It's a matter of public record (i.e. London Gazette) that you and Harry Ormesher were having business problems about this time .
Peter perhaps I may gently steer you in the direction of the Liverpool Echo and Evening Express Friday 28th October 1960.
All will be revealed as to why the Iron Door club 13 Temple Street Liverpool 2 was recorded in the London Gazette.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Many thanks Geoff for providing that bit of historically recorded information relating to the legal trials and tribulations back in the earlier days of the Iron Door Club.
“There’s no room in this city for a club of this kind” said [an indignant] Mr Arthur McFarland (Liverpool Stipendiary Magistrate).
It may be worth mentioning to non-British readers the situation governing the public sale of alcohol that existed in England and Wales at the time. The laws as they were applied in Scotland and the North of Ireland being somewhat different to that of England and Wales.

After the outbreak of World War I ‘The Defence of the Realm Act’ was passed by the British Parliament in 1914. One section of the Act concerned the hours pubs could sell alcohol, as it was believed that alcohol consumption would interfere with the war effort. It restricted the opening hours for licensed premises (i.e. pubs) to the afternoon hours of 12:00 to 14:30 and the evening hours of 18:30 to 22:30. In the late 1980s the licensing laws in England and Wales became less restricted and allowed pubs to permit the consumption of alcohol on the premises from 11:00 until 23:00 hours. However, such laws did not apply to private members clubs, of which the Iron Door Club was one prior to this court appearance press notice. But, before persons were legally allowed to drink in such establishments they had to be fully signed-up, card carrying members or if not, in some cases, be an invited guest of one such member. The accredited ‘Secretary’ of a club being responsible for maintaining a register of members.
When police raided the premises, of the 131 people present, 66 were not members.
STRUCK OFF
The books of the club were not properly kept, and one application for membership which had been accepted by the club was proposed by “Yogi Bear” and seconded by “Boo-boo.”
Geoff; I see from reading the press report that all the club’s officials (you included) decided to throw your hands up and plead guilty. I daresay legal advice was taken at the time, that I suspect counselled the lack of legs to stand on, that persuaded those charged to throw themselves on the mercy of the court, so to speak. It seems that from the conclusions arrived at by the magistrate (Mr Arthur McFarland) he didn’t think much of what you and Harry Ormesher were up to down Temple Street when he was reported as saying:
The magistrate imposing the fines said that the club had never existed except in name. He added “This sham club was opened simply for the purpose of lining somebody’s pockets, and the only two people we know who are interested are Hogarth and Ormesher.”
The magistrate’s decision to strike the club off the licensing register (which was to be expected) and to also bar the premises from being used a club for 12 months would have really pulled the financial rug out from under you and Harry Ormesher’s feet at the time. By the tone of the press report the appointed Mr McFarland was seemingly bent on putting the club out of business in those early days.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Welcome back Peter; I am pleased that you have 'chimed' in, you have laid the out the facts regarding the Licencing laws much better than I could have. I shall be setting out honestly the facts from the Iron Door clubs perspective and details of the organised Police raid on the club.
Your post also gives me the opportunity to wish you and your family health and happiness for 2017.
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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The Police raiding party arrived at the Iron Door club at nine thirty in the evening June 30th 1960 an entrance that might have warranted an award, waving apiece of paper dramatically in his hand a police officer announced this was a police raid and everyone should remain where they were and not move, within seconds about forty of his comrades had followed him, the officers proceeded to the bar area with one police officer standing at each of the tables which were laden with glasses of alcohol, the officers had brought white sticky tape which they cut into strips stuck the tape on the side of each glass and wrote the name of the person who owned the drink onto the label along with his membership number, meanwhile other officers had closed the bar and stopped the band from playing, whilst this activity was enacted downstairs other officer's were rifling through the clubs files in the office upstairs .Did you purchase this drink yourself sir or madam the answer was duly noted on the white strip along with all the other information. The reader should now have realized that this was a highly organised police operation just to have ten non members admit they had purchased their drink at the bar. I approached one of the police officers who I recognised as a frequent visitor at the club he admitted that he had been sent into the club to find out the lay of the land and the procedures that we adopted to running the club, 'why have you decided to visit us so early in the evening I asked' Our intelligence showed that you closed the bar and cleared away all the glasses by ten 'o'clock every night, he also admitted that the raid had been ordered from the top management.
THE door staff on duty that night consisted of two Corps of Commissioners' in full uniform (I'm sure Peter Hamilton if he reads this will be delighted to explain who these gentlemen are much better than I ever could ) also on duty was an ex Royal Scotch Guardsman army boxing champion, I mention this because of the Stipendiary Magistrates' remarks to the court gave the impression that the club wasn't organised it was a sham organisation that ran it. TO BE CONTINUED
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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I await with keen anticipation for the next instalment.
… “waving a piece of paper dramatically in his hand a police officer announced this was a police raid and everyone should remain where they were and not move, within seconds about forty of his comrades had followed him” …
Geoff; it appears the law really came calling mob-handed on that evening. To get that number of ‘bizzes’ together for a raid of that kind would have required the OK from high up the chain of command. It looks as if a few of Liverpool’s ‘great and the good’ of the time really had it in for you and Harry Ormesher. This could well explain, when I read the newspaper clipping you posted, the mention of one Detective Chief Inspector J W Bonner acting as prosecutor. That’s a rather high ranking police officer to be prosecuting in a lowly stipendiary magistrates’ court.

The ‘Bizzes’ is Liverpool slang for the police.
In the legal system of England and Wales, a magistrate (often referred to as a Justice of the Peace – sometimes shortened to J.P.) is usually a noted layperson from the local community who sits in judgment in a lower court on relatively minor transgressions of the law. The term stipendiary magistrate meaning a magistrate who is paid for the loss of income incurred while carrying out duties as a magistrate.
“THE door staff on duty that night consisted of two Corps of Commissioners' in full uniform (I'm sure Peter Hamilton if he reads this will be delighted to explain who these gentlemen are much better than I ever could) also on duty was an ex Royal Scotch Guardsman army boxing champion …
I shall do my very best, Geoff.

The Corps of Commissionaires was (and still is) a British security organisation that provides specialist security solutions. It is reportedly the oldest security company in the world having been established in 1859 for the purpose of offering employment to able bodied ex-soldiers following the end of the Crimean War (October 1853 – March 1856). Historically, the organisation has long had a strong association with the city of Liverpool. The appointed head of the organisation (an honorary position) has always been, since 1901, the reigning British monarch who since 1953 has been Queen Elizabeth II. For more information see …

http://www.corpssecurity.co.uk/about-us ... story.aspx

Though, it is claimed by some that the still in existence Pinkerton Detective Agency, founded in Chicago 1850, is in fact older than the Corps of Commissionaires. However, the counter-claim is that the Pinkerton Detective Agency, prior to the 1859 founding of the Corps of Commissionaires, was known as the North-Western Police Agency and did not become known as the Pinkerton Detective Agency until after 1859.

When on duty, and in full uniform, below is an image of how the Corps of Commissionaires look on being inspected by the present head of the organisation, Queen Elizabeth II …
107598886_BIZ_commi_301842c.jpg
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Re: Freddie Starr At The Iron Door Club

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Nice One Peter!
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